Disclaimer: This transcript was auto-generated using AI-powered software. Please excuse any typos or grammatical errors.

To listen to this podcast episode, visit Ep 26: Tell a Good Story – or Die (with Jeff Turner).

Kevin Oakley 00:13

Welcome to market proof marketing the weekly podcast from the marketing minds at doyouconvert.com. Where we talk about the current state of all things digital and how they impact Home Builders and developers around the globe. We’re not here to sell you, we’re here to help you and to try and elevate the conversation. I’m Kevin Oakley and with me today, as always, is the ad Dr. Andrew Peek.

Andrew Peek 00:31

Welcome to episode number 26. So glad to have you listening. And summer’s almost over. It’s summer over at your house. Kevin, with your kid

Kevin Oakley 00:40

Uh, well school our kids are homeschooled. So technically they are kind of back to school. Like their staff

Andrew Peek 00:47

days or something maybe.

Kevin Oakley 00:50

Yeah, they’re just they like to ease into it like you know, when you hit the snooze button, getting out of bed a couple times and just ease into the day. There isn’t enough school but there’s still lots of trips to the pool and a whole bunch of fun stuff that I I hear them doing downstairs and as they leave the house but I’m just here so to me it’s not that different is some are different for you it’s

Andrew Peek 01:14

it’s a little bit different because the kids go crazy but they’re at the age where they just like to kill each other. And so yeah, the the Help is more wanted as far as because I’m not working out of the out of the house have a little office here around the corner. So yeah, it’s next week. We start up I am ready for it. They need they need it and their lives.

Kevin Oakley 01:33

One of my favorite commercials of all time was the target commercial. I think they still use it. It’s the most wonderful time of the year the song that you pure at Christmas is playing. And it shows parents like dancing through the aisles like oh yeah, here’s some school supplies whatever like it’s, it’s just the best

Andrew Peek 01:50

go on children as

Kevin Oakley 01:51

a kid and it shows the kids at the end and they’ve got a frowny face because they’re going back to school.

Andrew Peek 01:56

That is awesome. They need to take that up, but on Facebook Perfect. Well I have a good story for ya. And this goes with if you remember it was a couple weeks back they talked about this gym that’s around the corner for me that did this presale process and it was they kept having to push the date back inspections weren’t going as planned. This was slow. This was slow everything out of their control. They should have done a little bit more on the transparency of what was going on. But they really couldn’t say much because it was going to find out is the landlords, landlords, contractors. And so they roll that no power that no, they’re just up to

Kevin Oakley 02:30

kind of like home builders and land land developers.

Andrew Peek 02:33

Exactly. But anyways, they finally opened up so I go to my old gym, which is like across the street, you know, it’s like Walgreens and CVS or any of the grocery stores and they will go close next to each other, hey, I need to cancel like okay, and they asked me like, Well, why why? I’m like, Well, I’m joining this new gym over here. I already joined. I like the equipment better. They’re like, Okay, well tell me more about that. And they were really getting kind of defensive about it. And so then I explained I had to explain myself, you know, justify why I want to cancel which is it was weird, Mike Well, they got this they got that they got that they got that. Not that there’s anything wrong with you guys but I just liked that stuff more. Yeah. So they do it and then and then they start talking more negatively about this new gym

Kevin Oakley 03:14

so the new one is is new equipment and cost less.

Andrew Peek 03:17

Yes, yep, yep yep, yep, yep. And it’s just yeah, it’s everything is better though then they’re like okay, well if that doesn’t work out you’re welcome to come back here. I’m like, okay, after they’ve like kind of questioned like you really made a bad decision in your life and I’m like, Okay, cool. Thanks. That’s all cancelled, got my confirmation. But think about I’m like, Oh, I wonder if there’s things that people do and this is my question for you after this story is not direct, mean things about the competition, but just saying the like subtle things where it’s like, slowly after a few of those, you’re like, Oh, well, you’re a jerk because you’re talking about this other builder like this. And I’m, I’m trying to make the best decision but now you’re making me question my decision making as you know, this is And I was like, I was offended over those 10 bucks 10 bucks a month. This isn’t like a $500,000 purchase or anything. So yeah. What do you do when potential customers talk about the competition? What should should someone do? As far as if they’re on site or from phone?

Kevin Oakley 04:17

The easy button answer is never go negative. It’s just bad form, especially, you know, the younger demographic, their filter for what you were describing is kind of not overtly negative, but it’s like, what would have passed for subtle perhaps like, well, maybe they’re just truly concerned about me. Like younger generations definitely are like Nope, that’s all baloney. Like I can smell what they’re Yeah, you want to do

Andrew Peek 04:45

it like their body language changed where they spoke change and you’re like, oh, you’re just mad that I’m

Kevin Oakley 04:51

looking exactly at. And so you, you always want to speak neutral to positive about your competition and you don’t have to say something. positive about the product necessarily, you’re going to say, Oh, yeah, you know, I know so and so over there, they’re great people, you’re gonna find that, you know, if you’ve already lost the sale, you know that they’re going to treat you well. The most important thing for handling I think it’s remember is that just because someone is going to sign a purchase agreement with someone else does not mean that you lost. And I guess you’ve translated to these gym folks to is they’re not they haven’t lost you as a customer until you fall in love with this other place. Like all the things they said to you may end up coming true. But they would have regardless of whether they said it to you or not. So it would have been better for them to have you walk out the door with a red carpet experience. And so your last impression of that company was its most positive.

Andrew Peek 05:41

Yes. Versus the yen.

Kevin Oakley 05:44

Make sense? It could have could have happened naturally. And the reason it’s so important homebuilding. I don’t think I’ve told the story on the podcast before but we did talk about it last year summit, which was someone in Albuquerque, New Mexico, they lost the sale to a competitor and this person still kept following up, they were using their CRM system, call the person even though they said we were buying with this other builder called up a month later, and the contract had fallen through. don’t really remember the reason why. And they just kept the conversation going. But you know, that contract fell through but now we put an offer on an existing home. Thank you very much. So, so great. He calls back another month. Yeah, you know what, that one didn’t work out either. So this goes on for, I think three or four months. And finally the salesperson just says look, you really liked my house, but it was a couple thousand dollars too much remember? Yep. No, we love that house was just expensive. Well, you just, you know, last four months of your life, because you didn’t want to spend four grand more. Doesn’t it make sense to maybe just revisit that house that had everything that we can make yours and ended up getting the sale. And he couldn’t, he wouldn’t have because he would have felt bad about himself if he had talked trash when he originally lost the sale. He Never would have called back and just say, Hey, this is me your your power. Remember, we’re just calling to see how things are going. That would not have happened.

Andrew Peek 07:07

Awesome persistence and then yeah, that positive experience on the on the exit. They’re super cool. Cool. I was wondering about that Mike. This was just a weird experience leaving and like you and I what’s funny is I talk to other people as well that have migrated over to this new gym. We’re all like the same time that we go. And now the same experience is all just they were mad and mad at me us. It was just weird. And do you have a story this week?

Kevin Oakley 07:30

I do. My My brother is selling his house. And your realtor.

Andrew Peek 07:35

You’re not a realtor.

Kevin Oakley 07:36

Well, no, I’m not. I’m not the listing agent, for sure. But he is selling his house. He’s lived there. Gosh, I think since I was in middle school or high school, so quite a while and they’re looking to make a move. The houses listed now when they were originally getting ready to list their house the first time this has been a little bit of a process for them, but they thought it would sell like two or three days because that was things are just really flying in their particular neighborhood they live in a great location in Hilliard premier community, their, their house is currently the only one in that neighborhood that is actively for sale. There are three other homes, but they’re all have pending sales on them. And so they’re like, this is just gonna fly off the market. And, you know, they didn’t ask for any advice for me. wasn’t surprised, right? And I’m a little brother, but so they go a little brother to what was that? I said, I’m the little brother too. And so I pull up the listing. And I’m like, the pictures here are not really doing a lot of help on Zillow. But there were a lot of them there were 42 pictures and so I I just mentioned to my brother and like, Hey, you know if you ever want to bounce any idea, yeah, so now we’re fine. A week and a half goes by. And he calls me up and he’s like, yeah, you know, we’ve had a couple of showings but no offers yet. I’m like, Well, I could help you run some Facebook ads and because I’ve doubted done this for probably 10 people over the last four years were using the Facebook tactics that we do to try to help people sell their existing home pretty much just running Facebook ads that then send people straight to Zillow, because it’s less work than building a landing page and Zillow converts well, so I do that 250 bucks get him about 900 visits to his Zillow page and the irony Okay, so it’s gonna be a longer story I apologize. Normally I try to keep them shorter but this

Andrew Peek 09:29

is a good story the realtor

Kevin Oakley 09:31

who is a great good person and help them find a house that they lake house that they own and and they have a history with so it’s not a This isn’t a personal thing as much as just a story of course, but yeah, go ahead and let your brother do that. But I don’t know if it’s really gonna make any impact. And less than 24 hours It was a three day campaign over the weekend. They had more views of their home on Zillow in the first 24 hours and they did over the previous week and a half nice because of Facebook ads pushing people over there. And so the realtor is like, hey, this, you know, I might have to figure out how he does that because I might want to do that on my other listings. But the photos are still kind of Yeah. So I was like, Hey, you know can if you want I’d be happy to come over. You know, I didn’t get you a birthday present. I’ll take pictures of your house. Right? It was last week. They pictures of your house for you. So, Andrew in Slack, I sent you the old pictures there. Yeah. They’ll see the old ones. Okay. And I’m going to send over now, right, the new ones.

Andrew Peek 10:32

All right. I’ll describe the old ones real quick so everyone can hear they are crooked. Like it’s obvious like someone’s been drinking or something.

10:42

cellphone picture you’re looking at like the cabinets and everything’s kind of just washed out.

Andrew Peek 10:47

So the colors it’s like if you look like left to right from the fridge to like where the window is like, the colors change on the cabinets just because it’s not shot correctly. And it’s it’s like it’s cropped zoomed in. Like it’s not the right lens type. to actually show how big the kitchen is or isn’t

Kevin Oakley 11:03

here’s the new kitchen coming through in comparison therefore you

Andrew Peek 11:07

Kevin’s photos nice nice though. A big difference. Yeah, kitchen looks huge now

Kevin Oakley 11:12

there are people who but Kevin you know you’re using the wide angle lens you’re taking HDR photos, which you know makes everything look a little bit brighter pops more. And it may not all feel exactly like that when they get there, which I respond to, but they’ll get there.

Andrew Peek 11:30

That’s the whole point there and it’s I think the HDR the argument of that HDR is closer to what we I agree experience than the first one. The first one would be like, you’re waking up and your eyes aren’t even open yet. You’re just squinting early. Oh, that’s what it is. But the lights halfway.

Kevin Oakley 11:44

So hopefully, now we we pass along. I’ve took 28 new images, pass them along to the real estate agent who’s going to load them up. Hopefully today and then we’re going to do another campaign this weekend. And hopefully my story next week is that you know the house is sold but if not nothing else. We’ll be able to compare the same house with different photos the impact on on both from an ad perspective as well as a number of showing scheduled perspective.

Andrew Peek 12:10

Very nice. I feel like you’re doing what a realtor should be doing for their commission.

Kevin Oakley 12:15

Well yeah so even the ads

Andrew Peek 12:17

that extent like they’re getting a fair percent on this home I don’t know what it’s selling for but three 400 503 three

Kevin Oakley 12:24

mid mid threes and so yeah, it’s gonna be a good a good paycheck now that that’s kind of the final part of this. It’s not negative so much as No, it is just surprising, right? That a an agent, have either a contact or a skill set. You know, I understand if I was an agent, I might pay out of pocket every time to have someone to photograph your house, not every home and invest in yourself to get the equipment and by the way, Home Builders now we’re talking about you to invest in yourself or had your company invest in in the department to get the equipment necessary to do this on your own when you need to. Again, professionals are great but This was me running and gunning, you know, for 45 minutes at my brother’s house and getting 28 photos that I think are going to make a huge, huge difference. Oh, yeah, definitely. So this will be a two parter. We’ll circle back to the Joker. The irony to me is that we’re creating this great content, then we’re going to run ads that go to Zillow. Now, on Zillow, the listing agent is not a premier agent. Oh, and so guess what happens right

Andrew Peek 13:26

through to someone else, the premier agent on the top right,

Kevin Oakley 13:31

the lead is likely going to not go to that agent. So instead of making potentially 6% on the transaction, he’s pretty much for sure we’re going to be splitting it with someone else because there’s three other agents on that screen that have 5100 ratings and five stars and he has no ratings, no recent transactions. And that also just got me thinking again, about the importance of the default scenario in terms of how we think you know, the power of the default Because they met this agent because they bought their lake house via this person. And so when it was time came time to sell their house, they just went right back to that existing relationship. Yeah. Because it was just easier than having to meet new people interview them understand, right, whether that’s the best agent to sell their particular property or not. True.

14:22

True. True. Yeah.

Kevin Oakley 14:24

Maybe not. But it was just easier if that trust was already there.

Andrew Peek 14:27

Even though it’s only one time as far as like, they did it once. They could probably do more. One more time for us. Yeah, I agree.

Kevin Oakley 14:35

But let’s move on to the news. That was a invigorating Lee long story time. Sorry.

Andrew Peek 14:43

Sorry, time, good stuff. Good stuff. All right, our first one, and this one seems like it’s exciting, but it’s not exciting. Facebook is sending out a bunch of emails like hey, we are going to be updating your Facebook page template, which I don’t think anybody really looks at Ever has looked at before. So to see that, and you start to get nervous, like, Oh, my whole page is gonna look different. But really, there’s not that many differences going on. So if you’re on the desktop, you have the tabs, which are on the left side. And you could have Custom Tabs, you could delete tabs, remove tabs, do anything with them. And then on a mobile, there’ll be vertical across the top. So they’re making changes to make mobile, make it more mobile friendly to help people who are on Facebook on mobile, connect with local businesses easier. So that’s awesome. And old, some people they’ll like automatically change your page template, but really, it doesn’t change much anyways, because they are almost all the same. It just changes that default set of tabs that you have. So I think it’s just a good time to go in there and check what you have going on. I know some people will like test different integrations to try to have like listings and homes and inventory like on the page itself. But you don’t look at them too much. And so it’s like oh, let’s go in here and check on either update it and get something working or maybe there’s something new out there for it. I haven’t really looked into those options that put put everything on there. Because I’d rather get them to the website quicker.

Kevin Oakley 16:10

Yeah, I mean, the example here is, you know, if you’re a restaurant now you can have that default button that says, you know, click here to make reservation, yeah, book an appointment at a hair salon. Those kind of things. So yeah, just the one thing that might tie into our last news story is it does say that they’re trying to make recommendations from your community more helpful. This is an article that was published in Facebook’s news newsroom where they push out releases on August 6. And so we’ll talk more about recommendations and ratings on Facebook at the end, but there may be some other smaller pieces to this. It’ll just take a little bit more time to uncover they’re just not being very clear. Just kind of a quick overview now

Andrew Peek 16:51

and it’s it’s almost I think a lot of people like they don’t have, say if he if you had an extensive album, section on your Facebook page, we had every floor plan and it’s organized mind kitchens, exteriors. Even by like design if you have like the modern farmhouse design or you have something like the grand estate, whatever you want to call it, that would be like, you might want to put more focus on the bus most most people don’t have that.

Kevin Oakley 17:17

So you might get an email about, Hey, your Facebook page is gonna be updated. They’re not they’re not gonna like take away the main picture from you or give you four pictures. It’s just small little adjustments to try to make it better.

Andrew Peek 17:28

Probably won’t even notice anything.

Kevin Oakley 17:30

All right, what’s the next one all about here and your

Andrew Peek 17:32

next one? This one magically? Have you heard of magically before?

Kevin Oakley 17:36

I heard about it. When you sent me the article. There you have this very strange looking device on what look like what’s that guy’s name from office space, Milton Milton, my favorite substance,

Andrew Peek 17:48

besides let’s say the stapler guy from office space, if you remember that, oh, I don’t even know when it came out. But that is a great movie. So it’s a not a VR headset. It’s a VR headset. So augmented reality so think about like Snapchat filters or Instagram filters where something is mixed with real life. So these you put on your face and you can look at augmented reality right there in front of you. That was really cool. There’s a great video on the article link that will they’ll show up there as far as how they work there only for sale in a few cities right now. Chicago, la Miami, New York San Fran. And they do what’s called a white glove delivery service with actually help you set it up. But there’s not much it’s for it being close up. So what

Kevin Oakley 18:32

what is it trying it for? That’s the

Andrew Peek 18:34

weird thing is it’s not really anything yet. Yeah, so the software

Kevin Oakley 18:37

hasn’t caught up to the hardware. What the hardware is way ahead of the software, just though does to circle back for people who aren’t tracking with us. It’s an AR headset, meaning that when you look through the headset, you see everything in front of you as normal, but it can overlay a digital image on top of your reality. So AR sanding for augmented Ray Or sometimes people are now calling it mixed reality, where it’s a combination of things that aren’t there and things that are. But in this headset, you’re seeing it all interacting together very similar to Microsoft HoloLens, which very similar design similar end goal, and it’s 2295 bucks. Now, does this thing require a connection to a computer?

Andrew Peek 19:22

So there is a little mini computer, I assume it’s more like a graphics card that you could just clip on to your to your belt. It looks like a little, like a little mini CD.

Kevin Oakley 19:34

Yeah, like a walk or an old old Sony Walkman. displayer. Yes,

Andrew Peek 19:38

exactly, exactly. I think it has like three or four hours of battery life. They have some insane amount of funding, and employees working there on the project. So I don’t know if it’s just going to a year for now, but all this stuff is available for it. And then yeah,

Kevin Oakley 19:55

they’re calling this one the creator edition. It’s really more of a dev kit for people. Who wants to create the software later? So I’m sure someone like john Lee’s probably already has two of these in his office and they’re, they’re playing around with it.

Andrew Peek 20:07

Mm hmm. You better have some, I think

Kevin Oakley 20:09

the fact that it’s got that separate computer is kind of interesting because it, you know, the Oculus Rift, the full version, not the go, which we have, does require a full like heavy duty desktop type device with multiple graphics cards potentially. This is an interesting way to attack that problem of having to have a computer with you. What also is interesting to me, Andrew, is that they’re using devices like this now to make movies. So directors now can put on something like this. And in essentially a large, empty soundstage, they can envision what the set will look like when it’s built. So they might say we need a mountain and the bosses layer over here, and he can look and see virtually in real space where that is and start to frame shots and compose how he’s going to film the movie months or protect Yours before the set is actually built. It’s very cool. The other thing is they’re working on a live action star wars TV series right now for their new streaming service that’s going to come out next year, okay, and they’re speculating that what will end up happening is there’ll be a device like this in the actual camera that’s recording the show. And so instead of having people wearing Stormtrooper armor or whatever the outfit is, the actors will literally just wear a green leotard. And the camera will project using AR onto that leotard, the costume that they’re wearing. So, in terms of cost and expense, now, you don’t have a separate company, you know, working on these really intricate animations and details. There’s just kind of real time they’re filming the special effects as it’s happening. Wow. And that will allow them to have a better higher end result more like a movie level production value, but TV level budgets. So this stuff is getting applied all over. So I think it is five years or less that potentially you’re coming into A model home where it’s part of the tour, you may not own one of these yet, it may not be commonplace, but you know, hey, just put on these these glasses as we walk through. So then you can show them what’s behind the walls and visualize those options and change colors and kind of like actors with that green suit on. It’s also possible to just build vignettes of Yak green, you know, go on this green revolution, cabinet shaped things that then will project whatever. Yeah.

Andrew Peek 22:28

And so I think it’ll be interesting to see once that technology is in place, and you could like go in to this home center, essentially, and you could build your home with the builder there. And it’s just this, say it’s a big green box. What that does versus the existing market. Like if you’re making a choice new versus an existing home, favoring, like, Oh, we could get everything we want. And look, we can look at it right now. And we can record a video of it and show it to our friends family. Hey, this is what’s being built and it’s real

Kevin Oakley 22:58

well and again, it harbor scenarios they’re already doing this, you know, some of the builders that we work with who do those kind of projects, they’re building out a vignette and kitchen in a space that’s not even in the building that’s being erected you know, 40 story tall building, they’re building out vignettes or actual entire models of so people can get the idea of the fit and finish this now becomes much less expensive and can be used in multiple locations very easily. So now, you know, going back to going where the people are. We’ve all kind of seen that mall design studios or retail locations for design studios haven’t always worked out the idea of we’re going to sell more homes by people just walking through the mall and then coming into the design studio and saying I’ll build a house with you. But if you could just have a separate room that would let them tour multiple homes, you know, that had a 20 foot by 20 foot space, where you put on these goggles and go then that all starts to be off. So this episode brought to you by the year 2020 Funny 25 Oh man, I will build a home doing that. I’ll wait to build until I could build it that way. Sweet. Sweet. On to the next one. This one you found? So

24:11

go ahead and tell us about it. Yeah,

Kevin Oakley 24:12

from buffer apps blog that says a headline caught my attention. Of course we analyzed 43 million Facebook posts from the top 20,000 brands.

Andrew Peek 24:22

catcher it’s not even clickbait. It’s just we that’s what they did. So

Kevin Oakley 24:27

that is what they did. Yeah, we’re gonna help you unpack because the headlines are somewhat deceiving, I think. But at the end of the day, what they found was that the volume of organic posts made by businesses has increased by 25%. In roughly the last I think, a year and a half, wow. Since q1 of 2017 to q2 2018. So one year and a quarter businesses are posting a lot more than they ever have. And it’s you know, it’s just a steady curve of increase from from over time. And the ironic thing is that Facebook organic posts interactions on business pages have declined by more than 50% over the same period of time. Wow. So we’ve got this increase in activity and stuff that we’re spewing out there without potentially as much thought or creativity or design as needs to cut through the clutter. And also, just because organic delivery has declined so much 50% fewer interactions, they also broke down, that those interactions decreased by all types.

Andrew Peek 25:33

So okay,

Kevin Oakley 25:34

if if you thought, Oh, well, that’s fine. We’re not we’re doing it better than everybody else, because we’re doing way more video. Well, video is down 47% in the same time period, from what it was before, images are down 63% even worse. And then worst by far is if you’re a brand or a business, posting links, to try to get traffic back to your site or to somewhere else that dropped by To a whopping 237%.

26:03

That’s terrible. So

Kevin Oakley 26:05

yeah, it’s that combination, though of just so much clutter and so much stuff being out there. And the organic getting less and less delivery without being boosted or paid for turning it into an ad. That engagement overall is just way, way down now. Wait,

Andrew Peek 26:22

did they talk about that they separate any of the pages into like, page types? Or did they aggregate all the data? Like there’s a did

Kevin Oakley 26:31

now your Yeah, I like the

Andrew Peek 26:35

really big article, by the way, if you’re reading it, like, which is cool, because that is like it when it’s like that versus like, here’s the summary and you’re like, well, I had this question like, does this include because if you remember, Facebook had this thing against like meme accounts, where they’re just airing videos that are viral. And I’m like, well, that’s tons of interaction. They cut those that couldn’t that could skew the numbers. Further down.

Kevin Oakley 26:58

Yep. So this is what I’ve heard this term crop up a couple times, from HubSpot agencies that we that we partner with, on some builders. This is what we called like a pillar page, or you know, it’s a piece of content that is very, very deep, you know, artists at a drop of 70% Movies 68 Media 64%, the best or lowest drop in engagement was retail 49.5 clothing was 50. They don’t show real estate or anything related to us specifically in here, but they do kind of sorted out by page type. Gotcha. The other interesting thing that they talked about is the ideal number of times to post now we get this question a lot of, we need to post three times a day, five times a day, 10 times a day, once a week, what’s the number what’s the magic number and of course, there’s no magic number. But in their in their analysis, they found that the highest and if you want the most engagements per individual posts, the pages that posted less than once a day got the most engagement per post to say so in terms of

Andrew Peek 28:02

times a week, maybe your

Kevin Oakley 28:03

return on your investment of time and energy per individual post, that’s the best in terms of getting that that return. The highest overall engagement, meaning just a broad number of total engagements was best on pages that posted five times a day. All mine. Yeah, there’s the return on your investments, for sure. going negative after more than five times a day, for sure. And

Andrew Peek 28:28

that’s the highest overall engagement. So engagement being the metric they used. So that is, uh huh. If someone’s like, really a go getter, and they’re like, I’m gonna do five times per day, then that’s what I’m gonna do. That doesn’t mean five times more leads five times more. Anything just five times more engagement on the ad, it’s what I’m interpreting that likes compares against Yep, the posts. Mm hmm.

Kevin Oakley 28:51

So if you have if you do five times a day and each one of those only gets five individual engagements, you know, that’s 25 whereas if you post once every hour, De them he gets get 20 individually, gotcha. But total number of engagements will be higher in the five times a day. Okay, the thing that I would caution if you say, well, then I’m going to try to post five times a day is the last thing that you share or post is the first thing that someone’s going to see. And is that what you want them to see? It’s one of the reasons I have a bias against, you know, funny culture photos cluttering up the feed and overtaking actual product. And, you know, what we always say is education or inspiration. And then sometimes a little bit about, you know, who you guys are as well. If your last post is, you know, look at us having fun at our, you know, cookout with employees. And then the next post after that is, you know, here’s us having fun at the watercooler at some point I think can get a little bit off brand doesn’t encourage the ultimate results that we want. And I think it Some of us are like you could tie in stuff with Holmes, like, I don’t know, if you’re gonna do that I think you need and needs to be tied in with with the product. And it should be able to be easy to do that.

Andrew Peek 30:09

This is interesting. I just pulled up in this big old study, which is like 5000 words. And here’s a snippet Facebook studies have shown that 79 seven 9% of vertical video consumers agreed that the format is more engagement and they said they would choose the vertical format in most cases. But most videos on Facebook agencies that make videos produce, like a creative agency aren’t vertical. It seems like there’s still like old school gone horizontal, which would be like the smallest screen size on mobile. Might be a fun, fun test. Yeah, for someone to do, like make a vertical first. It’s Oh, I hate that word. mobile first. I don’t like that word. But this is like the same thing. Like the camera needs to I think be recording vertically. Not like, hey, read the video to be vertical. Mm hmm. But it was recorded whatever the ratio is 16 I don’t know that the proportions but it needs to be up and down. So interesting to see,

Kevin Oakley 31:05

I think posting multiple times a day. I’ve said this for a while now push that to the stories on Instagram or Facebook. And in fact, I’ve noticed, personally that like, two, three months ago, I would have eight times six times more views on an Instagram story post versus a Facebook story post. That is actually almost neck and neck the same now. So Facebook users are definitely figuring out in fact, we used my wife and I when we were on our missions trip, we made posts, just showing like, click up here and you’ll see more about our trip, but we don’t want to overwhelm the feed with posting gotcha 10 times a day. So use the stories because those are high engagement people who are choosing to look at you. You’re not going to, you know, become overstay Your welcome. Yeah, I’m not gonna say welcome posting.

Andrew Peek 31:55

That’s right, and then hop over to and talk about mentioned the first one. Oh, the Review change to recommendations on the Facebook pages.

Kevin Oakley 32:03

Yeah, so I noticed this a couple days ago and I looked for an article. I can’t find any good resources yet on this. But But essentially, if you go to a Facebook page now that was allowing reviews, you’ll notice that there is now a screenshot that says that. Let’s see exact ratings and reviews have changed. And when you click that, it basically says, Hey, we’re, we’re no longer going to let you give a star rating, we’re just going to ask you, do you recommend this business or not? And then it’s going to take into account the total number of reviews that are recommending or not recommending and give you a score. So what I think is really interesting is it’s still going to give you kind of a 4.5 or, you know, 3.5 out of five, but it’s not going to be because, you know, 10 people gave you a three and a half star rating. It’s going to be just based on the total number of recommendations and were they positive or negative. And I think that’s more than indicative of how this really works?

Andrew Peek 33:02

I agree. And it seems, I wonder if they’re going to only show the recommendations as far as the story?

Kevin Oakley 33:09

No, and they don’t show they show the people who do not recommend as well. But it requires a story to what you were just saying, like you can’t say, wouldn’t recommend and not give any detail now, because there’s no, there’s no score system in that single recommendation to say like this was terrible. Or just

Andrew Peek 33:29

say yes, it’s yes or no. And then you just say no. So you, you could kind of leave it up to that person to and whoever’s reading it to interpret how mad or how is that a one or two item? Let them you’re really forced to interpret what is going on and read it? Yeah, maybe that’s what they’re

Kevin Oakley 33:46

when I was a builder, the way that we would talk about it was at the end of the day, the score for the company, all that mattered was that last question of would you recommend Hartland home, see your friends and family or would you choose to do business with us again, that’s all about counted in terms of the quote unquote, real world in terms of employee bonuses and other things, and you know, metrics and other questions. Were shades of gray. But at the end of the day, it was black or white, you know, would you want to do business with us again or not? And I think I think it’s smart that Facebook is going this way, because it’s a lot harder to hack. It’s like another algorithm that you don’t have to worry about. Just have a good process that gives feedback. But you know, you don’t have to worry about people not understanding how scale system works. Just

Andrew Peek 34:35

lessons, like one out of five, they think they’re actually doing something nice, and then they don’t know how to go back and change it. And it’s the best filter ever. one out of five, like, Oh, no, no, no, get around. Yeah,

Kevin Oakley 34:47

cool. Exactly. Right.

Andrew Peek 34:48

I’d be excited to see.

Kevin Oakley 34:50

All right, that’ll do it for the news. Up next after this quick break. We’re gonna hop on with Jeff Turner, the man the myth and the legend truly one of my favorite people who is not In homebuilding, specifically, he’s mostly had experience on the existing home side of the aisle. But he is a technologist, a futurist, and just an all around awesome guy. You’re gonna really love conversation. We’ll be right back. And we’re back with this week’s 360 topic of the week, tell a good story or die with Jeff Turner strong. Jeff, thanks so much for joining us this week.

Jeff Turner 35:39

I’m almost afraid of the topic myself.

Kevin Oakley 35:43

You should be because we do zero show prep. That’s our theme. I love it.

Jeff Turner 35:49

That’s on our feet. We had 30 seconds before this started for you to basically you know, grill me a little bit and that was it. This is real. This is real.

Kevin Oakley 35:57

It’s not live but it’s the closest thing you can get to It Jeff, I refer to you often This will be fun for you to learn as the ultimate outsider insider to our industry, because you’re not often in the new homebuilding space directly. But there are so many Shared Contacts that we have so many shared places that we’ve been spoken at Pacific Coast builders conference several times you actually live in a home built by a home builder currently.

Jeff Turner 36:25

Right, right. That is correct.

Kevin Oakley 36:26

But for those who haven’t had the joy of interaction with you yet, tell us just a little bit not resume but kind of your experience in and around the real estate industry.

Jeff Turner 36:35

Sure. So I I’ve been involved in one form of another with digital technologies as an entrepreneur since I was 25 years old, and I’m 56. So I don’t even I don’t even want to do the math on that because it really makes me want to cry. But I sold my first company and after I left, I sort of stumbled Upon, you know, the Ken Burns effect. And in the early days of virtual tours and the real estate industry developed a product for the residential real estate space called real estate shows, which was a an automated way, I think we were the very first platform that allowed realtors to upload images to the web. And it was a software as a service platform, one of the one of the first in the industry and we really did change the way people look at virtual tours. And so that’s how I got into the real estate space. And it was sort of stumbling on that and deciding, I think there’s a product here and I think there’s a better way to use these photos and create these tours. I’ve since gone on and done a couple other startups in the real estate industry. Most recently I brought a company called real satisfied which is a review platform over from Australia and we sold that company in 2016 and I am now the CEO for North America for a company called mo viewer, which is a 3d 360 tour company. We do immersive tours, we’re a software platform. That is, I love to say this camera agnostic, we are not a camera company. We are a software platform that aims to take advantage of all of the advances that are gonna take place in 360 camera technology.

Kevin Oakley 38:24

Now we’re gonna make you explain what all those big words mean, where they dig in a little bit agnostic. That’s for Friday afternoon. That’s getting pretty big. Bill. I have a couple quick follow up questions. Yeah. So do you claim credit for the real estate? was the first company real

Jeff Turner 38:41

estate showcase? Real Estate shows? Yeah.

Kevin Oakley 38:43

Do you think that you are still the reason why on so many people’s websites a quote unquote virtual tour is a slideshow?

Jeff Turner 38:49

Yeah, absolutely. I do. And I’m awesome. I mean, I mean this and I’m actually really proud of it because when we launched real estate shows, there was a No, there was nothing like it. Right? Everything was a really, really early version of a 360 tour. But it wasn’t a spherical 360 or an immersive 360. It was a very much a, you know, it spun around on its own, you had no way to control it. And they were very expensive people were paying hundreds of dollars per home. And this is back in 2002. To do these tours, and I, we had two goals in mind, one, let’s change the way people are utilizing their photos and create something that we felt was more emotionally appealing. So from a storytelling standpoint, we really felt like the emotion was absent from those other tours. So we added some background music and you know, we created a very seamless, smooth effect and we made it very easy for the agents to create on their own. It was a full Do It Yourself model. And the second goal we had was, let’s destroy the pricing. model like, let’s go and absolutely blow the price out of the water. So we came in at $99 a year make as many tours as you want. And it was very successful. It was very successful. Yeah, at one point, what would what was the highest number we again, this is this is back before most people even knew what a digital camera was. At one point, I think we had close to 50,000 agents using the platform. So it was a very successful product. And it influenced how others ended up developing their products. We had competitors for a number of years that you know, sort of stuck to their ground and we’re doing the other kinds of tours and then you saw them add in these these other tour types. So

Kevin Oakley 40:44

yes. Okay, one more important question. Yeah. You said that you offered background music. Yeah, I can’t let you leave me alone. How would you describe the background music options on your show? Show player?

Jeff Turner 40:56

Well, so we had various categories. We had an ambient category we had our country category. Okay, I know well, more, you know what I’m talking about. The ambient category was more like you were sitting and getting a massage. But I, I chose every single song myself based upon, does it match the flow, you know, because every between in that six to eight second range, we were having a scene change between images. And there was a pace to that change that was, was there and so every single song needed to match that pace, but we wanted agents to be able to choose a song that that felt like the house, you know, some homes feel more country, some homes feel more modern, some homes feel, you know, fill in the blank. And so the agent, we would pick a random song. Now, in all honesty, we had random focal points in images and a random song chosen 75% of agents never chose never changed it. They never went And did anything they just left the random focal points and they left the random music. But there was a percentage, you know, things typically follow the Pareto principle, right? There was a percentage that went in and said no, the focal point of that room is the fireplace. I want the camera to move towards the fireplace. And the people who did that ended up creating a, you know, tours that I really felt more like video because mentally you were moving towards something that was logical as opposed to a random movement. Right? That makes sense. Yeah.

Kevin Oakley 42:31

I love it. Okay. And then your rating and review platform, or Yeah, maybe maybe feedback platform, although that’s not a sexy term to use. What was your big takeaway from from that

Jeff Turner 42:45

company? standardization, standardization, and so what what caused me to fall in love with the platform when I saw it? When I I spoke in Australia at the Australian real estate conference in 2011. And I met David And Phil on the showroom floor there after I had done a podcast not similar to this. They were it was their first trade show and they were advertising behind my head. I mean, I have a photo of myself with a real satisfied logo before I even met real satisfied. And which is really odd knows people don’t have that kind of an experience. But the thing that really struck me was their steadfast adherence to the principles that they had learned developing custom consumer surveys for the magazine industry in the newspaper industry in the consumer products industry. They were they were specialists in this and so they really believed that what the real estate industry needed was a standardized survey that allowed brokers to have an understanding of whether the service promise they were making was actually being delivered by all of these disparate agents out in the field. So standardization was it we, we stuck? steadfast, you have no idea how many times in the selling process someone come and say, Wow, I really like your product like what you do. But can we change the survey? No. What do you mean, I can’t change the survey? It’s standardized. Why? Because you don’t know how to build surveys. I mean, we never wavered. It was never even it wasn’t even like, oh, we’ll try to coddle you know, you don’t know how to build

Kevin Oakley 44:24

the other day. They want to change it to try to improve their score, but that’s a competitor. I guess everyone remember better. That’s correct.

Jeff Turner 44:31

That’s correct. That’s right.

Andrew Peek 44:33

How did you guys meet? Let’s start way back.

Jeff Turner 44:37

little story. I want you guys to tell the story.

Kevin Oakley 44:41

Okay. Well, my recollection because I did creep on Facebook this morning. 2011. I was in my mind thinking that we had to readjust our budget at Hartland, I had extra money in the budget to invest in something different, better than just an ad and I thought Want to build an app but not an app for shoppers, because no one wants to download an app for every builder that they’re shopping with, you know, there’s other places and solutions to do that better. So I want to build an app for my customers to improve their experience, make it more social, more shareable. And it was just in the back of my mind, and I happen to be on Facebook, and I don’t remember how many I think maybe Mike Lyon might have shared a blog post or something that Jeff had written. And I think that’s it. And I saw Zeke interactive, and I was like a president of Zika interactive, click on it, and this company builds apps. And then I look at Jeff’s profile on Facebook and had a connection to West Virginia. My wife was from there. He had attended grace seminary, I went to grace Christian school, K through 12. There was like three or four just crazy connections and I normally don’t reach out to strangers, even on the internet, for anything, but I was like, Okay, well, this guy might be Be able to get a problem solved for me. And we just have all these connections. So I remember writing, I mean, I thought this is, if a stranger reached out to me, I’m going to delete it. So I’m going to take the time to try to. And I think basically what I said, Jeff was, you don’t know me. I don’t know you. But we have a lot in common. Yeah. And I don’t

Jeff Turner 46:18

really remember more detail. I don’t remember the exact I don’t remember the exact words. But that’s, that’s my recollection of it, as well. And I remember reading the message that you sent me. And I think, you know, this is a is actually a great lesson for anyone who’s trying to, you know, introduce themselves to somebody that don’t know, you know, there’s a story there too. You know, you storytelling isn’t just for this public marketing consumption. You told me a story, and it engaged me and it caused me to then go creep on you for a few minutes to know Do I want to respond to this guy or not? And you know, because Kevin had done a really good job of positioning himself. online as well, it was easy for me to see this. This guy’s real. This is somebody who I might want to know. And, you know, quite frankly, we hit it off instantly. And I, you know, I, today here we are, what are we? Seven, Eight years later I consider Kevin a close friend and someone who I believe very strongly in from a professional standpoint as well. And we got to build a fun app together, which was really amazing. Yeah, it

Kevin Oakley 47:28

was amazing. And we can talk about let’s hear about because I’m no longer employed by NVR. Right.

Jeff Turner 47:33

Yeah. But also it was a great app. And he you had the perfect in my mind. Again, we’re sort of focusing on this whole storytelling aspect. You had this perfect idea, this perfect seed of a thought, for how do I engage the customer who’s in the process of buying a home in my storytelling process, which was just brilliant, and we’ll

Kevin Oakley 47:57

post pictures of it. All the screenshots that I have of the app if you want to go build it now, because no one still has exactly. There is the My Home Story app that I would recommend you check out as well. It does a lot of similar things. But yeah, so So Jeff and I started talking, we’ve only ever met in person maybe four or five times in seven years.

Jeff Turner 48:23

But I said, Hey, I don’t have 100. I mean, at the time, you just built an app for the NFL or somebody. Yeah, we built it for us. We actually we built it for ESPN for the NFL.

Kevin Oakley 48:32

And so I’m like, I’m just a little homebuilder, and I’ve got, you know, I felt like, what’s that movie? Please, sir, can I have some more? Kind of like, this is all I got to work with me. And Jeff was like, sure. And so we worked for the next year on this and the whole idea Andrew was, I wanted to gamify the thing that they wanted to do anyway, which is to go and visit the home, to take pictures to create a digital scrapbook. And I remember Jeff, we use the word wimzie. I mean, it was it. Yeah, look like an actual notebook. It had some fun elements, and you actually earned tickets.

Jeff Turner 49:12

It was back. It was back when skeuomorphic design was still exactly

Kevin Oakley 49:15

right. Yeah. When not, the screenshots will not do a justice. It hasn’t necessarily aged well. But the concept is still there of Andrew, if you went to the house and took 10 photos, it would give you points for just simply doing that activity you wanted to anyway. And because they would connect socially, we had a way to look at see how much scale or how much audience would they have and potentially even increase their point value for activities based on that and and the idea was, you could then turn those points in for prizes, which we wanted you to win. So the idea was, hey, one customer every year we want to send to Disneyland for a week. And then a whole other slew of these tickets. Bennett I use WordPress as a back end, which I thought was genius because it would have been easy for employees anyway, you’ll take a look at it. We’ll do a blog post

Andrew Peek 50:09

to look at it like Zelda except on building. Yes, yeah.

Jeff Turner 50:12

Yeah. Yes, it was fine. You know, it was one of those. It was one of those ideas that you know when he first shared it, it was instantaneous. All this is brilliant. You know, like, sometimes you hear ideas and you got to germinate on them for a little bit. ruminate, ruminate germinate, ruminate both. You gotta let them spin around in your head for a little bit. This one was instant. It was

Kevin Oakley 50:36

like work holy crap actually tested it out. It really did work it really then NVR bought Hartland homes and the lawyer said, There is no way that we are letting at the time, maybe they’ve changed now, because I know they listen. They’re like we are not going to encourage homeowners take pictures of homes under construction because what if something goes wrong? What if there’s a picture of someone who’s right there or the wrong things safety equipment being used. There’s just too much risk for a public company with it. This is the back.

Jeff Turner 51:05

This is the perfect segue, though, into this notion that as marketing technology changes, your storytelling needs to change because you either give a platform to your consumers to tell that story that you can benefit from, or they’re going to tell it anyway. Because they have access to publish on their own to social media. Exactly. You know, they’re going to be taking these photos. If something’s wrong, guess what they’re taking photos and posting to the Facebook Anyway, you may as well have an easy way to capture that and identify it before it spins out of control. And I think there’s a there’s a sort of a background message here that says, as you recognize the trends that are shifting in terms of marketing technology, or social technology or digital technologies, you need to make certain that you’re not still handcuffed to old thinking around how technology works and what consumers are going to do with it. Because that’s, I think, where you ultimately get into the biggest amount of trouble.

Kevin Oakley 52:05

Let’s start shifting towards mo viewer. By way of this question, Jeff, if you had to pick two large trends that you think are going to be impacting storytelling in the future, what would what do you think that’s gonna be?

Jeff Turner 52:19

I think I think it’s all tied together because I think AR and VR, well, let me separate AR and VR, as I see them as two completely different things. So short for everyone, just from a definition standpoint, virtual reality could span from, I’m looking at a photo of a house online to a more immersive virtual reality where you’re sitting inside of some Oculus go glasses, and you’re virtually walking through a new home in space, and as you move your head, you’re looking around that space. That’s virtual reality. augmented reality is I hold my phone up and you know that timing of this couldn’t be better because Magic Leap just announced their new glasses this week. Yeah, we just talked about that

Kevin Oakley 53:06

on a segment.

Jeff Turner 53:07

Right. That’s where I put on these Magic Leap glasses. And now, the things that aren’t really there appear in the real world space. And so you know, the IKEA app that puts furniture down in your home for you. There’s a whole bunch of new augmented reality apps where you hold up your phone as you spin around the room, and you can see things there’s a couple of apps and you guys know that better than I do in the new home space where you can actually visualize your new home on your piece of property. You can visualize whole neighborhoods, that’s augmented reality. He’s talking

Kevin Oakley 53:40

about john Lee and rendering house and Susan Yeah,

Jeff Turner 53:43

and yeah, very cool stuff. And so I think, I think I look at those two things as having some of the greatest impact on storytelling, because you have to think completely different. Lee as a mark When you’ve got to understand that someone can look anywhere they want, yeah, you no longer are controlling their field of view. And it’s going to require a different kind of thinking. And that’s true of the VR space in, there’s a whole segment of thinking that needs to take place there. And it’s certainly true in the augmented reality space. Because now, as in the augmented reality space, you may not even be able to control the environment where you’re setting objects down. And so those that requires a completely different level of thinking as well. And so I see this, you know, impacting traditional marketing as well, as people gravitate towards these new marketing technologies, their brains are going to change, they’re going to begin thinking of things in new ways and it will actually impact 2d technology as well. So I see a give and take that’s going to take place but those two things are going to force people to shift their mindset around how they tell the story, and then

Kevin Oakley 55:05

AI could just add fuel to the fire. Absolutely.

Jeff Turner 55:08

I had the pleasure of speaking alongside you and Mike at PC bc this year. And you know, we really talk about some of the shifts and changes in artificial intelligence and machine learning and deep learning and you know, where all that comes into play. And we’re already seeing some really intelligent natural language chat bots that are coming around and taking some of the pain off of some of the, you know, inquiries that come in, over chat online, but also technologies that are making it easier for you to follow up on leads and and do things that reduce the amount of pain involved in repetitive processes and that sales process that’s going to require a different level of storytelling to and so it’s all it really all does tie together because the the whole VR world and our world are tied to the same chips that enable AI. You can’t stitch together a cake 360 video in real time without a chip that does some really stupid math, like, the math involved in this stuff blows my mind. And that’s true of everything happening in the AR, ai space as well.

Kevin Oakley 56:13

And I’m actually have our presentation pulled up here because I couldn’t remember what it was called. But computer vision is where, you know, you’re talking about how fast the cameras are changing and getting better for the technology to happen. But there’s still even another wave beyond that of absolutely what kind of tree is that? in that picture?

Jeff Turner 56:32

Yeah, yeah. And and you know, a couple of weeks later Kevin, I downloaded I’m gonna have to go on my phone Hold on one second. I’m sure the name of it because I want to get it right. And it works really well. an app called plant snap. e L, a MP sn AP. You literally you point your phone at a flower and it brings back what it believes is the best answer for what you do how many times I’m walking. I mean, my dad was a biology guy and so he I go what tree is that? You go Oh, Uh, you know, you’d be able to spout off, I don’t have that skill at all. And so now I can just point this out a flower. And you know, when I take a photograph of it on my photo blog, I can actually name the flower correctly. That’s

Kevin Oakley 57:13

to me is I want to rescan that as an own app just for me and rename it will Kevin kill it, you know, how easy Yeah, plant

Jeff Turner 57:21

back. But in that computer vision space, you know, you, you talk about the opportunity to really understand not just things in a space, but the space itself. I mean, an interviewer. The perfect example of this is that, you know, we’re able to build accurate, dimensionally accurate floor plans out of these 360 images with just knowing the height of the camera lens to the floor. Now, are they are they accurate enough to build a house from No, but are they accurate enough for someone to get a sense of that space and to get a sense of whether or not their furniture is going to fit? Absolutely. And so in the time that it takes you to shoot the photograph of the room, we can return back to you a floor plan. And that’s, that is 100%. A part of this, this whole movement. There’s a small amount of artificial intelligence involved there. And there’s some human nesting of those rooms that takes place on the back end. But you can’t do that without the math involved to understand the vectors inside of all of these pixels in that photograph. That I think is one of the most interesting things about the platform that you’re at now at image viewer is that ability floorplan also comes with a 3d model of the house. Not not the dollhouse view of it. It’s something that gives us the ability at some point in the future. We want a homeowner let’s say you’re you’ve shot the home for the homeowner and you pass that tour off to them. Like they’ve just moved in. new homes built. Now they have this tour of their home. should be able to go back into that, that tour and click on a wall and know what the square footage of that wall is, they should be able to go in and measure inside of that app, they should be able to go in and click on the floor and understand what the square footage is if they want to replace their carpet down the line. You know, those are the kinds of things that I think a consumer is going to gravitate to. And the fact that that same tour, you know, they could share it with their friends and family members. And if done in the right way, it could be, you know, viewed realistically, to spread the word to me that the storytelling aspect of this starts at the moment they sign their contract, and you have an opportunity to give them a way to view this process in ways that they’ve never been able to before. Because the technology has never been cheaper. It’s never been easier. It’s never been more scalable, and it’s only going to become cheaper, easier and more scalable over the next few years because this is where the money is going. 360 camera technology is advancing at four times the rate of DSLR technology. And so I like to say that the arc of of digital photography technology is moving towards 360 both 2d and 360 3d and 180 3d really, really amazing stuff being done with not your not your not your father’s 3d where you have to put on the red and blue glasses. Life capturing with two separate lenses and and again when you watch a 3d video inside of oculus go, holy crap. It’s so realistic.

Kevin Oakley 60:34

Andrew tell everyone your Oculus go story you were watching Netflix.

Andrew Peek 60:39

I was watching Netflix and if you have the app, you know you could set like your room. And I think the default you’re like in his cabin, maybe it’s in the Rocky Mountains like Denver somewhere. And Netflix is on like this movie theater type of screen like it’s all damn around you but you’re on this couch. It’s like a red couch. I don’t I remember that for some reason. But you’re and this was my very first experience with it. I didn’t really expect my, I don’t know what would you would probably know, Jeff, like your ears adjust, your brain adjusts, you’re like, Okay, this is reality as far as like, your body goes like your balance, like where you’re going and like, Oh, I’m going to lay down and

Jeff Turner 61:15

break out your brain compensates. Like it connects us to it really, really easy.

Andrew Peek 61:20

It was really it was like, you know, 30 seconds and I put on I don’t know, like the office or something. Just Okay, I’ll put something but it was

Jeff Turner 61:25

my first one as well.

Andrew Peek 61:28

Perfect. We’re rewatching that for like the sixth time? I think it is. That’s embarrassing. So I’m like there’s this couch right here. I’ma lay on the couch. It felt weird. Like I’m like I’m really down and it the couch is not there. But my body totally expected. there to be, you know, an object there closer than you know, I was on the bed. So I lay down but the couch should have been there half a second sooner than the bed and I’m like, I’m falling. This is really strange. It was

Jeff Turner 61:52

it was really cool. And it is amazing. And there’s there. There is a I mean. So I have six kids. And

Andrew Peek 62:01

I don’t know, we all have a lot. We all have a lot of

Jeff Turner 62:04

six, four you beat us. So yeah. Do you know that? Do you know that feeling when all of a sudden you realize there’s nobody in the house? Oh, man. It’s right. That’ll be back in that news. That’s the feeling I had, sitting watching Netflix with Oculus go on. It was like, yeah, and sometimes if I’m having a rough day, I have my my Oculus go glasses sitting right behind me. Now I turn around, I put them on, I pop something on for five minutes. And just watch it because it gives me and this is this is why the storytelling is going to have to shift because your emotional response to that immersive experience is different. Your your brainwaves change, and I’m sure there’s gonna be a billion studies that have come out on the dopamine that’s released as a result of this and, you know, you know, social media is going to take advantage of that and we’re all going to be screwed. I’m

Kevin Oakley 63:00

not kidding, just when you said that feeling that the web was released, and I instantly felt relaxed here.

Jeff Turner 63:06

Yeah, yeah. And, and so and so as marketers, and as people who are, you know, taking this technology and shaping it moving it. You know, you kind of have to use that power for good and not for evil, if you know what I mean. I mean, I think I think there are going to be ways that people are going to abuse this technology. And, you know, the only way for, for you as a responsible marketer, to understand that is to immerse yourself in it yourself, to feel it, understand it, get a sense for it, get a sense for how the story is going to have to shift as a result of this change of perspective, get us get a sense for the kinds of things that are going to make you feel good about the decisions you’ve made, the kind of things are going to make you feel bad about the decisions you’ve made. Otherwise, you’re going to you’re going to tread into a whole bunch of unintended waters. Yeah, that may come back to bite you. I’ve

Kevin Oakley 63:58

got an example. I’m going to throw it out. I just can’t came up with it. As you were telling the story, Jeff, is the ability to put on the headset experience the 3d space of the model home that my wife and I think that we want to build and to import the audio files, potentially maybe even the video files of a real life experience that we’ve already had in our own home and bring that emotional history and Ostalgie into the new space and be like what would this I just think there’s so even silly things like model home music, I’d asked you about the real estate show music but you know the music is a very, very personal thing and so you could walk into a beautiful model home and everything about it’s great but if they’re playing heavy metal, you’re looking at each other saying we have to stay here because this is if you don’t like heavy metal, but if you put on the go, rock on man, enjoy that heavy metal that you love so much in the space. Think about

Jeff Turner 64:56

this. Think about this. I’m connected to my face. Quick account on this Oculus go. Let’s say you’re a new home builder, and I’m in this model home and you create hotspots inside of picture frames. And instead of random pictures that appear in there, you are now bringing in photos of my family from Facebook. And so as I’m looking around this model home, I’m actually seeing my family’s photos in those frames. You know, that’s the kind of stuff that from a tourist storytelling standpoint, you know, if there’s a big huge framed photograph above the fireplace, and you just happen to bring in a photograph of my farm in West Virginia, done you’ve, you know, data on

Kevin Oakley 65:34

Yeah, or even put it outside of the windows.

Jeff Turner 65:38

Absolutely make the scenery change based upon, you know, what my interests are. It’s these these, you hit it right smack dab on the head, Kevin, if, if that’s how I’m going to feel then help me take me one step further. And then as a marketer, you have to know you know, how far do I go before it comes? scrape it. Yeah. Right.

Kevin Oakley 66:02

And I think it goes back to control as long as the control remains in the hand of your prospect that your consumer

Jeff Turner 66:08

that little toggle, personalize, personalize, personalize the home. Yep. And let people let people have a wow experience have that experience that they go all okay. Wow. I mean, isn’t that what we’re all looking for? Okay. Wow. I’m looking for that from a cup of coffee for God’s sakes. Uh, you know, let’s, let’s wrap up with a rapid fire. You know, our little tagline here is we’re here to help you not to sell you but we I think it is important that people understand just the basics because everyone’s familiar with what a true 3d 3d viewer is and matter port or other experiences. But what is it about mo viewer that made you say, this is the next thing that I want to attach my rather illustrious name to speed, the quickness of capture. So I in this office that I’m in right now, if I were using Mater port, I’d probably have to take four shots because you have to take a shot every four meters, I could take one shot in the center of my room and capture this entire room and it would take, you know, less than two seconds to do it. So when you project that out across an entire house, the amount of time that it takes to capture using our software is way shorter. The cost of the cameras have cost scalability. That’s what really attracted me to it. I get a similar feel. Now is it is detailed. Is it as immersive? No, it’s not. It’s not but it’s way less expensive. And it’s way more scalable. And so for me, it gets you to that place where you’re giving the consumer what they’re looking for at scale. And then doing all the other fancy stuff when you need to do it for the fancy stuff stuff. Yep. And it was really that fancy stuff. Stuff is my technical term.

Andrew Peek 67:49

I like that’s good that’s been

Kevin Oakley 67:52

back on our team is working on some blog posts around this Oculus go we bought everyone on Have an Oculus go to experience it after you convinced me to get it. And she took it. Now that they’re all they’re all loving it. Although I think Jackie’s husband has stolen it when you have to get her a second off. Big video game fortnight on Oculus go

Jeff Turner 68:16

Yeah, I don’t know I don’t think so either my kids would already be gone and wouldn’t even that wouldn’t be able to find them at

Kevin Oakley 68:21

10 but how to the scalability point that you’re talking about? Becca took the Oculus go to a family reunion or was on vacation and she wanted to let folks who are older try it out you know 55 plus and see what their reactions were to it. And I thought what was so interesting is of course there is hesitancy at first of what is this thing I have to strap it on my head this is you know, unknown and but she said the the quickness from which they went to I’m not sure about this too. I really like this to frustration of well why can’t I go look at this other house or how Why can’t I change the cabinets to different colors like or

Andrew Peek 69:01

like minutes, where they’re like, Oh, I could I should be able to do these things. But

Kevin Oakley 69:05

they’re not tied to a camera that can quickly, you know, the next generation, you know, two months from now, if it’s better, and it’s another $300. You know,

Jeff Turner 69:17

what’s the big deal? This guy’s like that, that famous Louis CK comedy thing where he’s sitting on a talk show and he talks about how he’s on an airplane and for the first time ever, you know, they introduced Hey, you can connect to the internet on this plane. And less than five minutes later, the guy beside him was sitting in complaining about the speed, like something that you never didn’t even know existed five minutes ago, is now not good enough for you. And that’s, you know, but this is, this is the world we live in now. We believe it or not, we’re more used to the pace of technology change than we think we are. We expect things to happen faster. You know, we you Kevin, you have a great Illustrator. During our presentation of, you know, a $29 handbag on Amazon, I can spin it around in 360. I can zoom in and look at the stitches. I you know, I got 17 different views of it. I expect that experience and more when I’m looking at a new home, because it’s way more expensive.

Kevin Oakley 70:20

Yeah, and everyone, the naysayers, you know, I’m never going to put something on my head because that would be stupid. But the other example of the wrong talk was, everyone else said, I will never use a cell phone at a restaurant in Pittsburgh. That’s rude. Now, that’s whatever. That’s

Jeff Turner 70:36

right. Yeah, the wrong. People are going to strap on these headsets, because the feeling of it is so unique. And it and it gives you a sense of a space that you can only get by actually going there.

Kevin Oakley 70:50

Yeah, especially if you’re going to relocate your family across the

Jeff Turner 70:53

country, especially if you’re gonna do that. Yeah, you’re gonna you’re gonna love that.

Kevin Oakley 70:59

Awesome. We are hitting up on the end of our time here anything else that you want to make sure you share with people or encourage them to,

Jeff Turner 71:07

to know I think this has been I think this has been awesome. You know, I what you’re trying to accomplish, or at least I think what you’re trying to accomplish it with the podcast, it’s just to raise people’s awareness of where things headed, where they’re going, what should you be thinking about? And I think sometimes it’s, it’s good to be tactical, obviously. But sometimes it’s good to take a step back and say, Alright, let’s look at their trajectory of the world to come. And where do I want to fit into that trajectory? And yeah, that’s really what I’m trying to get the word out around 360 cameras and 360 videos that this is where the arc of technology is moving towards. And if you’re not placing yourself even for fun with your family, into a mindset that says, Let me think about this differently. You’re not preparing yourself for where the future is leading.

Kevin Oakley 71:49

Exactly. And the former CEO of Moz, SEO Moz. Rand Fishkin had a great tweet a couple weeks ago, where he said, you know, the more I’m thinking about this getting someone to be searching for your brand makes your SEO game easier. And a lot of people think about SEO and say I want to show up for all these words that are not my brand. But to your point, you do need that mixture of deep tactical, efficient pneus to your campaigns. But you also do need this story and brand as an over layer to that or eventually it’s just another commodity. Yeah, absolutely. I think the the inflection there is actually as technology advances shifting further towards the story brand importance than the tactical because AI is gonna kill the

Jeff Turner 72:37

tactic. Yeah, it’s gonna kill the talent

Kevin Oakley 72:39

in the atmosphere. Andrew, right. Every time is limited and the time is up. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks again for joining us, Jeff.

Jeff Turner 72:51

My pleasure. As always, thank

Kevin Oakley 72:53

you. We’ll make sure in the show notes to find all different ways to reach out and connect with him. Check out mo viewer do a demo You’re working on a couple demonstrations of homebuilder models to write and like

Jeff Turner 73:04

I am I’m hoping to have a landing page on our site specifically for home builders in the not too distant future. Awesome. All right.

Andrew Peek 73:32

And we’re back. That was amazing. I am certainly enlighten now on the future. That is was awesome.

Kevin Oakley 73:39

Jeff such a good guy. He’s a futurist, technologist, creative person and just extremely genuine like if he sniffs out bullcrap in what someone is saying or doing. People either. He doesn’t care and know how he’s perceived he will just Say No, that’s incorrect. So he’s not a hype person. He certainly can get you excited about the future and what’s coming around the corner and what’s next. But it always comes back to not necessarily practicality, but human to human connection. And the importance of that

Andrew Peek 74:20

human element and all of these changes is, you know, brings the brings the focus back to what will actually be done.

Kevin Oakley 74:27

Yeah. And that’s what I’ve always appreciated is he will, how do we apply the technology to make our interactions even more human? At the end of the day? Maybe not? Initially, because it’ll be with technology. But at the end of the day, when it matters, how do we get humans to humans? So thanks again, Jeff, for coming on. super busy guy. Hopefully, we’ll be able to have him back in the future, but just just real, that everyone got to know him a little bit better.

Andrew Peek 74:55

Alright, Episode Number 50. I’ll write it on the calendar.

Kevin Oakley 74:58

Yeah, I think we’re gonna have to do something special when 50 comes around and 100 maybe roundtable back some guests to have group discussions, arguments debates, be fine. No. Well think about it

Andrew Peek 75:10

recorded live in person somewhere a bunch of people party. Oh man, we have we have a few more weeks to plan that. But here I’ll bring us back to the question of the week from last week, which was are you able to give feedback that is valued on price and product to other departments or leadership? Or did they ask you to stick to advertising put you in your corner?

Kevin Oakley 75:32

Laura OMB was the first one to hop in from Colorado and say, I’ll be honest, being a female in a construction company, it is hard to be heard. I can show numbers data to back up my points and it still doesn’t matter. Hopefully times change. Hopefully time changes that and I’ve been brushed aside often enough, I know I have valid thoughts on product options, etc. Sadly, it’s hard to keep positive spirits sometimes but I’ll prove myself in the end. And she said I guess it takes three to six years and that was because I Just trying to encourage people, you know, both who I know there’s folks who out there who can be involved in that discussion. But for those who aren’t, I mean, any good employee is going to feel like they’re able to contribute to the conversation. But, you know, the if you’ve only been doing something for six months, and someone else has 10 years of quote, unquote, experience, of course, they’re going to be skeptical about what you’re bringing to the table. And so I was just sharing my own story of it took three years or so just to be part of the discussion, like at the table when those discussions were being had about product and pricing. But I’m not certain that it was ever truly valued until almost six years in where I could tell that my opinion really shifted the direction. Gotcha. And it comes down to just outlasting at times other employees in the company because they leave they retire, they get fired. And so when you just start kind of naturally male or female, just being around longer than you may not have, in total years of experience a ton, but in terms of compared to other people in the room at that organization, you are now part of the quote unquote Old Guard, even though you’ve only been there three years, right? So Oh, gee. And then that just kind of spiraled on a long conversation have multiple comments from there. Martha said, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And females pretty much drive 91% of new home purchasing decisions. She went out with a winky

Andrew Peek 77:30

face. Let’s see, there’s a lot of conversation on here. There’s Heidi. That is the second time recently that I’ve heard the 91% figure referencing Martha’s comment. She agreed with Laura, it can be difficult to be heard in this industry. It finally just clicked with our leadership that I may have a valuable perspective on the needs of our market with that comes more input on planned development. Each of our franchises sets their own pricing, but so she doesn’t have to say that so she works with a franchisee model, but she does have some input on planning. Development. That’s pretty cool.

Kevin Oakley 78:01

Yeah. So I mean, it makes sense because she’s talking to so many people about what they’re looking for and and then the other thing that’s a common theme, if you convert somebody say a lot to each other, and to our builder partners is, you know, make sure you’re telling stories with data. And Meredith Oliver said, tell stories with data sounds like a fantastic program for IBS or PC bc that you should write and teach, or at least the name of a new book, just planting seeds. So we are working on a T shirt design of tell stories with data. So we’ll we’ll have that available. And I think we haven’t talked about this, but I’m thinking we’ll just do something for charity. So there’s lots of different online marketplaces that we can put these designs out for you to order yourself. You know, we’ll make no money but if there is a built ability to put in $1 or something of profit for each t shirt or hat or whatever, we will donate to a charity

Andrew Peek 78:57

to prices lower and yeah, definitely

Kevin Oakley 79:01

And then let’s see if like there’s one more comment. Martha, on our own also said, You know, I can’t say I’ve had any issues with being heard or being able to bring input to the table. A lot of our decision making is collaborative. And each person brings unique info and feedback, depending on their role in the company. With so much data at our fingertips these days, there is so a lot to look at. Since I speak with customers and deal with our marketing, I can give feedback on what is viewed on our website the most. And she goes on from there. But you know, Martha works at a smaller organization. So also sometimes it’s just the size, right? How many? In fact, sometimes small organizations have too many people giving too many opinions about things that they’re not qualified or should be given an opinion on. That’s another topic for another day. But that is, yeah, so if you don’t have the chance to participate in that discussion yet, don’t give up. Keep you’re looking for ways to tell stories with data and just be patient. Because, like you said, I think on last week’s episode, Andrew just building that street credibility by doing smaller things. Well,

Andrew Peek 80:03

yes. And entry to the table, not that show off those wins all the time. But yeah, people need to know if you’re doing things well somehow get that out there and the trust will be built over time and to that circle of trust. Well, that was that movie. I forgot. Oh, yeah. You got to get in there,

Kevin Oakley 80:20

Meet the Fockers Meet the Fockers,

Andrew Peek 80:24

or no, Meet the Parents, the parents and then this, I think, Meet the Fockers was the second one and that was her last name, Fockers, so

Kevin Oakley 80:33

I don’t have to bleep that out that name. All right. What about this week’s question of the week?

Andrew Peek 80:39

This week’s question of the week, which ties in perfectly with this episode is how do you think marketing will change in the next 10 years? That’d be 2028. My oldest will be 16. All my that’s terrifying. So in 10 years from now, how do you think marketing will change? Whoo. I’m excited. So

Kevin Oakley 80:59

I don’t think We should give our thoughts on this one yet. Oh, I asked her the question. Let’s switch it up going forward I think we don’t want to prime the pump so to speak. So we’ll answer this question along with your answers next week, because I think 10 years is definitely long enough where a lot is likely to change quite a bit. All right, that’ll do it for this week for published articles, blog posts, videos and more check out t convert calm it’s also the best way to find out how to connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and the like. There are hundreds and hundreds of of those articles and videos and tools and resources. They’re all 100% free not locked behind a paywall and, and I’m just going to drop this last little bit at the end and you’re I am 102% complete with presale without fail. The real book, real book,

Andrew Peek 81:54

I want a copy. I will get that at the online sales and marketing summit. I

Kevin Oakley 81:58

hope yes That is the goal to give everyone who attends they’re the first copy sign them but it is to the printer. So

Andrew Peek 82:07

that is awesome. This the I haven’t seen the cover or anything so don’t show it to me early because I oh no yeah, it’s that’s not the pre sale without fail way. There’s no pre sale. My urgency is like I need I’m curious I need to know. I’ll probably start asking people around if they you know,

Kevin Oakley 82:24

that’s the thing I actually did already posted somewhere.

Andrew Peek 82:27

I need to go like probably a story and then it’s not there anymore. Oh, yeah,

Kevin Oakley 82:32

you’re right. That’s what I love about those things. I’m sorry. Let’s get out of here. Have a great week, everybody.

The post Ep 26: Tell a Good Story – Or Die (with Jeff Turner) [Transcript] appeared first on Online Sales and Marketing for Home Builders - DYC.