A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!
Andrew
So I'm trying to up my content game. So in front of me I have I'm looking at my web camera immediately. Behind the web camera is my Sony A7 three, which like maybe 5% of people like, know what that is? And I got like the lens which should be perfect for this distance to have everything behind me out of focus.
Andrew
Then I have like this monitor. I forget the name of it, like this other screen attached to it so I could see myself scramble, like walk behind my desk. But okay, this shot's good. And then I got this, like, crazy tripod thing that has one, two, three, four, five, like seven articulation points. So it could be like. Like this, like a claw to do it, but, like, it just looks like chaos behind my desk now.
Andrew
So I'm still getting used to it, but I'm so excited. I did some test clips and my goal for this is to make content easy to create, which I've never been in. Like a consistent flow because it's like set up the camera, take down the camera, set.
Jen
You're going to start doing more video.
Andrew
More video content like me, kind of talked about that people should do, like practice what you preach a little bit.
Beth
Well, then send that setup my way!
Andrew
I will maybe know anything.
Andrew
$3,000 or so, but like it's been over the years. It's been over the years. We'll see. Is it worth it? I don't know. It kind of leads into my story time as far as like, is it worth it? Is it not worth it? So maybe we just I'll I'll go into story time. But first, let's get started. Welcome to episode 310.
Andrew
I am the self-proclaimed ad doctor with no formal education to call myself an ad doctor. And with me today is Beth Russell and Jenn the one and only barking woo! Who were here. Here. So, yeah, let's see. Yeah, I'm excited. I'll just continue with my story time. So content and trust is what is what I'm going for. So is it worth what I spent on my camera and equipment for content?
Andrew
First of all, I use it for other purposes. So and I've had it for a couple of years and over time I've built it up. So it wasn't like I just spent all this money on fancy camera and everything. Last night we were not in a mood to do any cooking, which really means I do. I do other cooking, make sure notes, listening.
Andrew
I do other cooking at the house. I'm like, I'm not cooking anything. I took Addy, our youngest, to Tumblr, and so I got home at like 7:30 a.m.. Like, it's getting late. Kids go to bed at eight because they're elementary and middle school. There we go. I'll order some food. So we went out to Uber Eats because I did not feel like driving.
Andrew
Like, Oh, let's try this little Greek place out that's like right around the corner. That's like my, my limit. Like, I want something close so the food is fresher, right?
Jen
Yeah. So does it take too long?
Andrew
Yeah. And it's called you little. It's called Little Greek. I've never been there, but the reviews are good. But, like, you never know, Like, that could just be, like, friends, family. They're like, you know, guilted people into leaving reviews. So we get it. And every single thing is branded with their logo. Like, we got a First of all, how do you pronounce Giugiaro Euro?
Andrew
Euro?
Jen
Yeah, euro or.
Andrew
Like the euro, they're not really.
Jen
Are Gyro.
Andrew
Gyro.
Jen
003 is not right.
Andrew
It's definitely regional. Right. But who knows. That's, that's funny. So that's what I ordered. That's what Lindsey ordered. Then we got some other things but it was the euro was wrapped in a branded like little. What's it like parchment paper, styrofoam. It came in branded the little wrap that goes around the napkins and forks branded. I'm like, Oh.
Andrew
So immediately I'm like, I kind of trust these people already. I've never been to this place. Think about the opposite. What if it came in like a generic, the absolute cheapest to go container the cheapest paper, the cheapest. I'd be like, Ooh, with food. And maybe I'm weird with food safety, but I would have had this impression. Like, they probably cut corners somewhere.
Jen
Mm hmm. Yeah, they have attention to detail.
Andrew
It's NATO.
Jen
So it's France.
Andrew
Super important. All right, So I'm hoping quality, the better camera setup should give the impression that we, I, all of us, care just a little bit more. Yeah, because it's perfect. It's, you know, the audio is going to be ten out of ten the video, ten out ten all all these things. Is it necessary? I have no idea.
Andrew
Probably not, because we're not used to seeing every single person make content with a fancy set up. Usually it's phone, but you're good to go.
Jen
There is something to be said for there's some.
Andrew
So like in Kevin if you're listening I'm request I'm just kidding.
Jen
Well that there is I agree with you in that there's something to be said for the quality of the output starts with quality tools. Yeah you know I think about like my kids who are in sports and like my son coming to me saying, like, he needed, you know, for pitching. He needed the very best glove or the very best training weighted balls and I'd be like, whatever.
Jen
He's like, Yeah, but. And there's something with the perception of, Yeah, I'm investing in myself. And then the output of what I'm producing is going to be that much.
Andrew
That I actually agreed. Maybe there's like a minimum threshold, so you don't need to go like all out, but like it needs to be like it hits this threshold where like, okay, everyone is like, all right, I trust it enough. So maybe the company last night, they didn't need everything to be branded, but maybe just like the wrap around the food, it's enough because I was colored.
Andrew
It was like white and blue, which makes sense. Greek like it would be white and blue, but maybe not everything would have given the same feeling, but nothing certainly gives the opposite negative feeling. We're like, Ooh, like, I don't know, like, never been here before. It's not like they didn't didn't take that extra step. Maybe they're actually being lazy.
Andrew
So it was a shock moment. I'm like, Oh, I just got like marketed.
Jen
And I feel like I work out there when I, when I have like, the brand shoes on.
Andrew
Yeah, I agree.
Beth
Whatever it takes. The lemon versus the Amazon.
Andrew
Officer.
Jen
If I had if I had Lululemon outfit Lululemon not Lily.
Andrew
You're wearing like $600 worth of stuff AirPods.
Jen
Like the, like the best workout.
Andrew
This the best work.
Beth
Of my life. I have a question. When you guys go places and they have those like fully branded items or like you go to a restaurant, they have those thick nice paper towels in the bathroom. Do you immediately go to like the dollar signs of how much all of that stuff costs? Because, you know, you know, like more than my money.
Andrew
I definitely think about that.
Beth
I think about it all the time because I think like, okay, they've made so much money just buying the foam containers in bulk. Yeah. But to get the emblem or to get the stamp of their logo, the amount of money and time that they invest into doing that, I'm like, okay, they care and they're investing in it and they have the money, so they have to have the profit.
Beth
So they're making enough money, they're selling enough food, People must like them, boom.
Jen
Yep, Yeah, 100%.
Andrew
And maybe there's something like we feel like we it's like why apparel works for some companies and doesn't work for others. You buy apparel because it makes you feel like you belong to whatever that brand is. I think that I'm Mark at the summit. I forgot his last name from a thousand. What he talked about that was not not it was a Davidson Mark Super cool, dude.
Andrew
I think. Mark Right That's one the producer is I'm terrible last names but he's like you belong to this brand. Like why do you buy Nike versus New Balance Other There we go. Mark Davison Olivia's helping us out or why do you buy X, Y, Z bat versus another bat? Like I don't know, like you're part of the club type of deal.
Jen
My it's my husband won't only buy Nike. Yeah, it's like even to the point of like following certain sporting like athletes. Oh, they're under armor. Oh like they must not be that good. It's like.
Beth
Maybe.
Jen
A Nike branded athlete.
Andrew
I'm from Maryland, so your character's really sensitive about this.
Jen
This is I'm.
Andrew
Not sure what else is from Maryland.
Jen
This is not me. I'm saying. I'm saying my husband.
Beth
I'm just giving.
Andrew
Him another Andrew.
Jen
Another Andrew?
Beth
Yeah, says Andrew's man.
Andrew
Yeah, we got old Bay. We have. It's in there. It wasn't a cake show. And Maryland Cake.
Beth
Boss. He was in Maryland. Yeah, he was.
Andrew
Boss Old Bay under armor and the Wire, I think was is. Oh, Cosmo.
Beth
Thanks for asking.
Andrew
You're welcome. You're welcome. Okay. All done with my distractions. Beth or Jen, who wants to go next?
Beth
Well, I have another story about details, if you will. So I'm going to coordinate.
Andrew
This without even knowing.
Beth
And we always end up doing this. Or we're just really good at transitions and we don't give ourselves enough credit. Maybe. Oh, but basically, I was having a conversation with someone in the industry yesterday working construction, and she was telling me why she left her previous builder and what was like the reason, like the catalyst to her just being like, okay, I'm done.
Beth
And she was on site with one of her superiors, like I guess like an area construction manager type person. And I think she was the superintendent at the time essentially. And they were going through like their queue, so they were evaluating the home. And she pointed out some things and the the superiors response was, well, if they don't mention it, if they don't see it, then it's not actually a problem.
Beth
And she was like.
Jen
Nope.
Beth
I'm done. Like, I'm not going to be a part of this. This is not like I don't want my name attached to this type of builder or to this type of mindset. And I think it's just really interesting because it points to integrity, right? And the detail.
Jen
Of what I was thinking.
Beth
Yeah.
Jen
And like the definition of integrity.
Beth
Mhm. Exactly. And it's like she, she wasn't willing to compromise her integrity to be a part of it. And the details, the little small things that he didn't think were a big deal, they could eventually come back and bite you in the, in the years later. It could, it could cost the company a lot of money, It could cost the company their reputation.
Beth
It could cost him his job, her, her job, all of these things like you have to have integrity in your building, in your marketing, in your data collection, and how you do sales. Like if we lose our integrity, then there's a domino effect that could happen later on that could really cost us a lot more in the end.
Beth
So it was a cool little story and I was just like, Then you go, girl.
Andrew
You go, you get it, you go, you get the A Who cares about that? Yeah. Especially on the home side. I mean, that's the product like we're building. Yeah, we're not I mean, I'm not building homes. She's building homes. You know, props to her. Like, that's the there will be someone living there 24 seven. Like they will find those things eventually.
Beth
And I wish there were more people like her in in all areas. Right. Not just in construction but in in in marketing and sales and whatever. Because her response to it was, I don't want to be a part of the problem. I want to be a part of the solution. And if I can't make it better, then I don't want to be there and I or I don't want to be in this industry anymore.
Beth
She was like, I'll go like work at Chick-Fil-A, but you know, whatever it is, like, I feel like I'm making people happy.
Andrew
For sure and not be on home. Inspectors tick tock reviewing like yet another. Have you all seen those yet another homebuilders? I'm being kind of like tick tock. The content goes viral because it's interesting. There's a story, there's tension. Right. That's more interesting than a perfectly made home. Right. Which one do you want to watch? The home that looks like it's falling over the one that's like, oh, like it's perfect.
Jen
Yeah. The train wreck.
Andrew
Yeah. You're not sitting right? Yeah, the same. You're. What's that rubbernecking they're turning. They're like, okay, cool. You're like the accident essentially. So it's just it's just drama. What do you what do you got, Jenn?
Jen
Well, I've got a lot to think about, but one thing that really stuck out that's super relevant right now is that I was talking with on a coaching call this week with an online sales specialist and we were looking at numbers and you know, just one thing to keep in mind, I think as we move into this next few months, you know, things are a little harder.
Jen
People are looking at numbers and really scrutinizing everything. And so we were doing that together and just talking about lead to appointment specifically, hers had dropped from September to October.
Andrew
Okay?
Jen
And I was like, okay, like, why do you think that is? And I was expecting she was going to say something like, Well, it's really harder right now. Like customers are being a little bit it's harder to get them to an appointment. That's what I was anticipating she was going to say. But what she said was she goes, I think it was me and I think it was my mindset.
Jen
She goes, I had kind of gone down this rabbit hole of watching a lot of media talk about interest rates and how the market is tough. And she said, I think that was affecting me and like I was projecting concerns I was having about the market on to the customers I was talking to. And so I sat back and I was like, that's really insightful of, of yourself, that you're self reflecting and you're realizing.
Jen
And I said, Okay, this is what we're going to do. I said, Right now let's let's write down what are the pros of buying? Let's switch our brain. What are the pros of buying a new home right now? And so she start she was like, okay, she's like, you know, we have inventory. She's like, there's not a lot of other inventory on the market.
Jen
And like, exactly. She's like, we have a warranty, we have a home warranty. It's a new home like. And I said, Exactly. I said to think about cost versus, you know, the cost of buying a new home versus the cost of a resale home where you might have a lot of other expenses that go into that. And she's like, Exactly.
Jen
And I said, okay, what our. Oh, and I said, What else? She goes, Incentives. We have incentives. I said, Exactly.
Andrew
Yeah, that's a good one.
Jen
Yeah. I said, You have incentives, you have a warranty. It's a brand new phone. You have inventory as it builders have, you know, the ability right now to provide those incentives that used homes don't have, you know, on the market. And so I said what are the cons? Okay, we've made our pros list, what are the cons? And she was like, well, I guess really the interest rate is the main thing.
Jen
And I said, okay. And I said, But people don't buy interest rates, do they buy homes? So let's talk about how we can talk about that. And so we spent some time just kind of thinking about that. And really what it boils down to was the main thing is the affordability. You know, the affordability because in this particular online salespersons, market affordability is huge because there they sell to more entry level, you know, first time home buyers and that affordability is crucial.
Jen
And so we spent some time talking about like for online sales specialist, they're not trying to convince somebody, you know, especially like a new home, a new first time buyer. It's like, I'm not going to sit there and try to convince them that it's affordable like that they should purchase. Right now is a good time to buy at an 8% interest rate and the affordability is going to be fine for them.
Jen
But what they need to focus on is let's do this, come out, take a look at how we build that way. When you're ready and you feel comfortable, you'll be able to determine if our builder is a good fit for you or not. And so I think online sales just has to have that perspective shift of there. So hung up on like, I got to get I got to sell, I got to get this person thinking that now they should buy when really let's just get them thinking about coming in and taking a look at our homes because hopefully they'll come in, they'll fall in love, they'll meet with that salesperson that's on site that
Jen
can show them how cost changes, what incentives they could work with to kind of help them to be more affordable. And so it was a really good exercise to kind of go through that. But how powerful I mean, what you guys agree like that mindset of like if you're sitting there thinking like, yeah, like doom and gloom that's going to project on to the people you're talking to.
Beth
Absolutely.
Andrew
Yeah. Yeah. I think I just wrote this down. My brain is like getting excited from from everything you're saying I wrote. Is affordability an objection or is that just a reduction of market size? So that's like semantics, like objection being like, well, you know, like you guys have nine foot ceilings, they have ten foot ceilings. To me, that's objection.
Andrew
I'm not even in sales training, so tell me I'm wrong like all day long versus affordability is like if you cannot afford the home like it, that doesn't there is no objection. I guess you're not in market.
Jen
Because you feel like it's really an objection. It's not like.
Andrew
You know, like work your finances a bit like, you know, like we like for this person, we have no debt. Our income is as such, like, here's what we qualify for. It's not that's not an objection. Like, you can't even think about it. But the objection is like to me, there's choice for an objection. So they're on the phone and they already been maybe they haven't been pre-qualified.
Andrew
They're just brand new. Yeah, get them excited. Like, Hey, come on out like that. So much fun. Like, come see our communities talking to people we know. Just, you know, Halloween was, what, two days ago? Our Halloween experience with our kiddos compared to our friends who live in where we're at. Like we have very few new home communities Pinellas County, Saint Pete, Clearwater, like west of west of Tampa, very few new home communities.
Andrew
Our kids Halloween experience, I can guarantee, is 100 times better than those who live in a, quote, traditional community. That's like where it's just like sixth Avenue, 17th Avenue, whatever it is. And like for like there's no one doing like trick or treating. I'm like, Oh, come 2 hours, we got 70 houses, everyone is out, end of their driveway.
Andrew
You don't have to knock on the door. Candy, candy, candy, candy. And we're used to it. And so it's fun. Or they go to I'll go to One Tree Oaks, which is they older, established community, one entrance in one instance out. So they're all going to these places that are communities like, wouldn't you want to live in a place like this?
Andrew
Like there's 20 kids on the block, like all these things that are if they can't afford it, like it makes them move like, okay, so we're $400 more per month or whatever it is. Like that's a lifestyle upgrade. But for a good reason. If you have kids, if you could even have that discussion. But there's there's more than just the numbers.
Andrew
I think people forget like there's more than just the dollar amount, like there's the value of community and and being around people. If you have kiddos or if you don't like.
Jen
Right.
Andrew
Going somewhere where like it's active.
Jen
So exactly So to that point it you know online sales can't you have to be careful about getting hung up on their job is to engage and to get somebody excited about the possibility of buying or building not to sell the home over the phone. That's legal for the salesperson. Leave that for the people that are trained to do that out on site.
Jen
Just get them excited, have them think about what it would be like to live there, to trick or treat there in that community and get them out for informational sessions. You know, we I've said this like 20,000 times. We'll get the word appointment out of your your words, your vocabulary and start talking about we'd love to host you for a discovery tour.
Jen
We'd love to host you for an informational session and I'll be sure to let everybody know that you are just in the beginning stages of looking. They come out sales, get them excited. We see how they could be living in the home. And that's that's the shift. That's the mental shift that has to happen.
Beth
Yeah. And I think in any rocky market situation or when, you know, these doom and gloom conversations are kind of or thoughts are looming either in your brain or the people that you're talking to whose brain remember one core thing and they're calling you for a reason exactly how they get on the website.
Jen
All the interest rates.
Beth
Yeah, they had to be. They called.
Jen
You.
Beth
Yeah, exactly. And if you just remember that, it can help you get in that mindset of like, okay, they're calling me for a reason. They're interested in this market. Let's let's have a party, let's talk, let's make it fun and try to drag it out.
Andrew
Yeah, I think pick up, pick up Starbucks on the way, like something out a little bit. Like I don't know if like to meet us would be a thing. And if you do this because it is the person's schedule. But like, if I don't have have kiddos like hey, I come by at 430 today or like schedule an appointment or like the kids are out.
Andrew
Like if you happen to be that familiar with like the schedule like and then they pull up in the street and they see like kids running around hours. I feel like most of our street, like we raise our kids like free, free range chickens. Like it's like, let them roam around, it's gated, they're out and everyone's got ring cameras all over the place.
Andrew
There's usually like two or three parents out doing something in their yard and 15, 20 kids out. Now, if they're an older person with no kids and they don't want that, that'd be a terrible idea.
Jen
Don't send them out to get. It's the.
Andrew
Ministry. No. Oh, goodness. What fun. Yeah, you're just kidding. Just getting them excited. Yeah. Yeah. Know any other stories? When you talk about anything else happen at all? Not on my end.
Jen
Well, listen to. I could tell. I could tell you, Andrew, that today that we presented to our online sales academy.
Andrew
I love it.
Jen
And I had fun presenting to our online sales Academy was because we wanted to do a session like a marketing 1 to 1 session for online sales.
Andrew
Okay.
Jen
You know, just yeah, that's needed. We well, we talked to all and I said, well, it's time. Like your job is to quantify what's happening. And like that said, well we were talking about earlier somebody is like yeah, I didn't really understand what that meant. Like, I hear like how important this is, but what does that even mean?
Jen
So like, but what? Yeah, I think everybody what you.
Beth
I think it was really powerful. The conversation that you're referencing, Jen, is that she was like, I heard when I took this position that I would have to own my data and I'd have to I'd have to know my numbers, but I didn't know what that meant or the impact of actually doing that. And so what we did was painting a picture alongside Jesy and Amanda of what that meant from an organizational standpoint, going back to integrity, how important those numbers are and this like vital position that the online sales people have within maintaining that flow of the funnel and the kind of feedback and data and information and collaboration that can happen between marketing
Beth
and online sales. And I think that's kind of where do you convert was routed from is that relationship between marketing, marketing and online sales? Because I feel like oftentimes we're seeing that marketing feels like a silo. They feel undervalued, unappreciated and like it's not as invested in. And then online sales can oftentimes feel the same where like, you know, sales gets all the glory and they're the ones writing the contracts and people aren't really sure what it is that they do or what it really means.
Beth
And they feel like they can have more of an impact. And so we kind of talked through that and how the two departments can lean on one another and work together and find solace in the two of them collaborating and and and celebrating one another. So it was really fun. It was really, really.
Andrew
Sound so positive.
Jen
Well, you know.
Andrew
What? I'm stealing someone. Jen, Jesse, Amanda. For the marketer of marketing Academy sales.
Jen
Yes, Yes. Boom.
Andrew
And Beth, is Beth also do something like that. Gives me like 2 hours. So I eat some food, take a little break to the academy because we're like 16 hours of talk.
Jen
And I share something that is very relevant.
Andrew
This my horoscope.
Jen
Conversation would say, Yeah, listen to this Gemini. Every week I pull one of these random cards out. Okay, you guys notice I.
Andrew
Need to know what it says.
Jen
And, well, I'm going to read it to you. So this week's card is collaboration. Oh, okay. Let me read to you what it says. I take pride in my role as a good collaborator and look for opportunities to help support my colleagues ideas rather than dismiss them outright. I fill my meetings with yeses and ends and I celebrate the constructive power they have over Butz and or else, unless I work for a company that makes cigarets and boats, in which case bucks and orders would be Oh, never mind.
Jen
Okay.
Andrew
That's hilarious. I know why this reminds me of Elaine of Money Garment. I don't know why. It just seems like something she'd say so positively.
Jen
Yeah, Collaboration. I like it. But, you know, when Beth was talking, did you notice? And she was like.
Beth
She's dancing. I do it when I like to. Yeah, when things make me happy. I just like.
Andrew
Chick-Fil-A and I get Chick fil A's sauce.
Jen
Sweet tea, you know?
Beth
No, no, sweetie.
Jen
A collaboration between online sales, onsite sales, marketing. You know, it's an ecosystem. They all need to be collaborating, working together, and even just within teams, you know, collaborating like us, you know, like we collaborate, you know, we could easily live in our own silos between sales and online, I mean, marketing and online sales and whatever. But magic happens when you collaborate.
Andrew
The magic.
Jen
I love magical collaboration. Good.
Andrew
Yeah, that's it for today. I'm just kidding. That's not it for today.
Jen
And we are out.
Andrew
And on to the news. Here's a fun one. I'll let Jen take this first one I wrote a blog.
Beth
Post.
Andrew
Ready for. I'm just kidding. Wow. This is collaboration, in effect. No, we don't have to do that.
Jen
Did you see.
Beth
That? I shared these and shared it.
Andrew
You commented on a link and it was awesome.
Jen
I read it.
Andrew
It's good.
Jen
I read it.
Andrew
And that's perfect collaboration. You at it? Did you.
Beth
See? No, that's not Gatorade, right.
Jen
That's my joke for. Oh, it's not is it is.
Andrew
G for the Gatorade? Is that you for something?
Jen
Sounds like it should be Gatorade. That's why I'm good. It's not Gatorade.
Andrew
As a perfect blend of I.
Jen
Will Electrolytes explain it. I read it, though, and I said that I am happy that you are on this team and that you can share these very insightful things with the world, very insightful.
Andrew
It's very exciting to explain it. It's actually the opposite of exciting. It's yet another thing that Google has done to make G4 just a little more challenging. So for everyone listening previously in Universal Analytics, you can change the default channel grouping settings. So we're bringing all this data. We want to put it in nice organized buckets. You could change those settings with the default group of those buckets, channels and J for you can't do that.
Andrew
You have to duplicate the default channel groupings and then you have your own custom one, whatever you want to call it, device C channel groupings like make it, make it a cool name or or best channel groupings. You know, put your, put your stamp on it and then you could change things. So it's like this extra step you have to do.
Andrew
It's really not that big a deal. But for most of us you do have to change it a bit, especially if you previously had like a syndication channel. Now that's going to what they're calling unassigned. And ideally unassigned is as little as possible. We've seen some builders, it just explodes because they either have a misspelling in there and they're UTMB or there's something technical going on that like the data is not being interpreted correctly from Google Analytics.
Andrew
So we need to own our data, We need to know our data, We need to be familiar and best friends with it. So if you're seen on a sign, essentially the symptom is if you see unassigned as a very big traffic source, chances are you need to check this article out and make the changes. Super quick and easy.
Andrew
I'd say 5 to 20 minutes depending on experience to get it done. Not a big deal.
Jen
Not typical. So that's sometimes you have to do those things though, which was.
Andrew
You know, kind.
Jen
Of make it like you've got it. Yeah, you've got to sit down and focus on some, put on sprinkling some rap music and yes.
Andrew
Sally Who? Kendrick Lamar. Yeah. Who else should we put on sexy record.
Jen
Like, okay, so I'm like, you know, Notorious Tupac.
Andrew
Oh, Tupac. There we go.
Jen
Oh, yeah. Dr. Dre. Snoop Dogg.
Andrew
Yeah. Eminem. He's not old school, actually. You think about it like, Oh, we're.
Beth
Old.
\Andrew
Andrew is getting a little aged, but all the young kids still like him. All these young'uns, you know, who knows who knows? Well, let's go on to the next one. Beth, you won't take this one. It's about big money from the White House.
Beth
Big money. White House.
Andrew
Star.
Beth
Opens $45 billion in federal funds to developers to convert offices to homes. So essentially what's going on is they are helping fund all of these offices that have at least 25% vacancy rate and providing some funds to developers and incentives to developers to convert said vacant offices into affordable, affordable renting homes for people. So that way, part of it is also like trying to keep the housing area local to where people are working.
Beth
And so there's less fuel emissions and less commutes and, you know, things going on there. So there's some added benefits. But I'm curious of what you all think about this, because I fear, like what happens in like ten years.
Andrew
Yeah.
Beth
Where how affordable are they is going to be? Are they going to maintain that affordability?
Andrew
Yeah, I think that's terrible.
Jen
I need to think about ten years from now.
Andrew
I don't know, ten years, ten years now we'll have a population issue. Like there's not enough.
Jen
Like I mean, when I first read this article.
Andrew
B 44 so I'm good.
Jen
Andrew. Andrew might be thinking about empty nesting and moving into one of these years.
Andrew
Let's see, our oldest will be 21. So there's that, our youngest will be 16.
Jen
I don't know that when I, when I first read this, I thought it was positive, but I was I was thinking like one affordability. And I was also thinking about that. I have two young adults who are going to be wanting to move out on their own here soon. And I had recently visited DC when I was staying.
Jen
I was in Georgetown and I was like, my son was born I thought was beautiful. Such a fun, cool place to live, but it's so expensive. Yep. And I was thinking, like, how cool it would be if I was a 20 something, you know, just out of college, young, professional. And I wanted to live in a Georgetown like area.
Jen
And I saw this article and I was thinking, Oh, that would be really cool. MM So I was looking at it from that perspective.
Beth
No, I totally agree. And I think it's, it kind of circles back to what I did in Silver Spring, Maryland.
Jen
Where. Yes.
Beth
Yeah. Where they're taking their instead of doing X percentage for affordable housing or what is it called Section eight housing, they're expanding it a little bit further. And so they're making it like based off of the income that the person makes. And so there's more people that can afford to live there. So I think it depends on how it's defined and making sure that it's regulated in some sense.
Beth
But I do agree that it's a it's creative because having lived in the D.C. area, having lived in in other city, big cities, there are so many office buildings and office space that's just not being.
Jen
Vacant.
Beth
Sitting vacant. Yeah, not being used. And then also you have like the only things that are coming up are high end condos or high end townhomes that are harder to afford as a young couple. So I think there's a lot of value there. I'm curious to see how it goes. And I just hope that the the greedy developers at the top aren't taking advantage of it, but they do good things like, like why I.
Jen
Did. Yeah.
Andrew
So I'll be the counterargument just to be the counterargument. I think it's a terrible I think it's a terrible idea. And I'm more so because of, well, can we have housing in that building based off of regulation, city, county, whatever. Like, well, that's a nightmare. Like, are we going to spend more, let's say like to build a brand new low square footage, one one, two, one, two, two.
Andrew
Whatever set up that is affordable. Is that actually cheaper than retrofitting a I'm just thinking like, what's the last big office I was in like couple of weeks ago? Like there's one bathroom down the hallway. Yeah. And now we need to have plumbing for, Oh, you.
Jen
Have a bathroom?
Andrew
Like, is that how is it.
Beth
Yeah.
Andrew
Each unit based off of like, All right, the toilets here, we need X amount inches for this. Is this, is this why we need windows? We need what about fire? What about all these other things that are not typical at all for commercial compared to residential? What do we need to change this? I'm like, Oh, to use like what actually actually cost.
Jen
More land to build those types of things in less in a big city unless you convert.
Andrew
That is true, but it's I guess I'm thinking if it's not worth the developer's money to retrofit remix their current vacancies, like they're not willing to invest it themselves, is this even enough money to make it profitable?
Beth
Yeah, I think this is like a losing game.
Andrew
Like the government started money at it and they're spending 300 K for something that will cost 200 K or I'll bring it like it's a negative r y that way, that way that's the reason I was doing it. Maybe. I don't know. I'm sure it's circumstances building to building, it's location to location, but like, oh geez, like should have could have this been a we're actually sending 45 billion to build homes that have to be in this price range.
Andrew
So they'll be outside they won't be downtown like I compared us to to the UK. I think I had like 25% vacancy versus 8% in Europe. I've never been to Europe. So hear me out on this neither. But transit and all those things are significantly better and you're closer. So maybe 8% is not because there's anything wrong with our commercial property, but like it's all these other factors that make their vacancy lower.
Andrew
They would have been better too. I'm thinking about like some of the products that some of the builders are coming out with that are like six to like 1100 square feet, much smaller. Like how many more homes can they build for that that are truly affordable, That won't be rentals, that will build equity over time for people that are that would be long term renters, and then their lives are actually improved because they're building equity over five, ten years.
Beth
Yeah, Yeah. I think.
Andrew
Maybe they're doing.
Jen
It depends on them. I think it depends on the market, the town. Yeah, the.
Andrew
Greed.
Jen
The vetting like.
Beth
But yeah, there's a lot of questions that need to be answered to make this truly successful and impactful. So I think that's where it's like, it sounds great.
Jen
So yeah, like, yeah, I think a.
Andrew
Big be place a bet on this and be like, okay, what's the you probably walk by Jen when you're in DC, What is the government group that like essentially audits the government itself, you know, like I forget the name of it, but like tenure. So now when this is done, they'll be like, well, we spent 45 billion, 22 billion was fraud because you just apply for this like the, like the payroll tax and loans, like all these people abusing the program.
Andrew
Like, hmm, this kind of has the potential for that like years of money grab here's this and then the timelines on it. I'm just being so I took the negative approach on this one.
Jen
Like I like it when.
Andrew
I was in it.
Jen
No, no, no.
Andrew
Interesting. Who knows? We'll find out. I don't even know if this is approved or if it's just an idea that they're pushed through. We'll find out. Well, interesting.
Jen
Yeah. Push on Friday to.
Andrew
Help on a to me, a definite positive is the one from the truth about mortgage dot com. So that's that's a fun site there but there's this lender and which city where they end.
Jen
Essentially they're going out.
Andrew
There Yeah and Glenville New York based trust Co bank has come up with a novel concept to get homeowners moving again literally so they're essentially splitting the mortgage rate if you have a 3% rate and then you are approved for 7% for a meeting in the middle and that's your new mortgage rate. So they're trying to get do you have to have the mortgage already with them?
Andrew
Yes, I think you do. So So this is a very limited.
Beth
Pool, a very limited group.
Andrew
You're trading you're good rate because they don't make any money on it, sort of lower yield, lower return. And they are swapping it for a higher one. They kind of leave out, though, to shoot holes in their data. They didn't talk about the higher cost of the home. So you bought the home at 400 K at 3%. Your new home you want to move up to is now 655 and a half.
Andrew
So like, I don't know, big difference. I think if you have to move in you're able to finance with them like this is a great thing.
Jen
But I like their their image on the the article blowout sale plans. I mean that's that's a fun 20 to 50% off.
Andrew
I mean yeah, kind of 50% off each in the middle.
Beth
I think it's creative and I think they're kind of taking a page on a builder's, you know, out of our books, know what we're doing. But like you said, it's extremely limited. And I think what it would be more interesting to me if they were able to do that for people who are relocating. So like if a big national team could do this or like people who actually sell their mortgages and you never know who your mortgage is going to because that they talked about that like they actually hold on to their mortgage, they don't sell them all.
Beth
So like it would have been lovely if we could have maybe sold a house and then gotten a lower rate than what we did because we had to move. We didn't have an option. So I think it's interesting. There's some legs there. I'm curious to see if other people follow suit or if this is if this is just a one and done type scenario, especially.
Andrew
Regarding like we refiled with rocket mortgage because they were like amazing salespeople, like ten out of ten they cost me like Tinsley is 20, 20, 21. Like we closed in 2021. I was yeah, we bought our home in 28. So we went from like four down to we're one of the people on here that would like, why would we ever get rid of our mortgage right by Rocket has the they came out with a 1% payment plan product which is pretty cool.
Andrew
And then you get a grant. So I like Rocket's approach because then it's for almost anybody. But it'd be interesting if Rocket follow suit because they're the whole nation they have a lot of people like, Hey Andrew, I get an email from them considering moving well we'll meet in the middle. Rates are at seven but you could be at here and that affects a lot of people.
Andrew
So I mean.
Jen
I really do. It makes me excited that people are continue going to try to get creative on how to make it more affordable to buy a home like that. And positive.
Beth
Definitely. And I think from a consumer standpoint, it tells us that, like, things aren't always black and white and they seem like there is some great of things that can occur right behind the scenes that we just aren't used to or don't know about because we're not like well versed in this, which I think ties into the next article.
Beth
The next why I want my popcorn. It's been a very interesting week in the real estate world.
Andrew
Oh yeah, it's been fun. What's interesting is it's not really mainstream as far as like I call my dad about it. He's an attorney. So I guess first let's talk about what we're talking about. So this is from housing Viacom, although you could go almost anywhere and just type in Missouri and air losses and it pulls up everything.
Andrew
But brokers prepare for changes after the Spitzer slash burn it commission lawsuit verdict. Well, that's that's a lot. Who wants to explain this? Probably better than I can.
Beth
There's two parts of this lawsuit that I think are digestible to people. Right? There we go. There's the one side that is saying like, hey, 6% is isn't a standard. It's not a requirement. Right. But we have been told within the industry and consumers have been told that 6% is the standard and the required amount.
Jen
It's like the wait, what's that Mandela fact like, where are you just there's been something in existence that you just Yeah.
Beth
Like the chef's.
Andrew
Like he's like 20% to buy a house. A lot of people think you need to.
Beth
Sent down exactly.
Jen
Like this is you don't need to wait this is the standard when that was never really.
Beth
There's nothing. I mean, down in LA they would have to pay 6%.
Jen
Yeah.
Andrew
Or like even use a real estate agent or realtor the realtors, the registered name with NPR.
Jen
Now, you know, I was a I was a realtor. I worked for a brokerage. Yeah, but that was what was always it's just like that always existed. Like that was the.
Beth
So everyone believed it to be true. So that's one side. And then the other side, which is the meat of this lawsuit in general, is the fact that sellers were paying buyer agent commissions. So they were essentially their argument was that like we are paying for someone to negotiate against us. And so one of the verdict or one of the plaintiffs I'm sorry, her situation that she laid out was like we said, we're paying 6%.
Beth
Right. But when all was said and done in our actual net, whatever might be our net profit, there we go, our net profits that we made from the sale of our home, it was actually 20% that went to agents commissions, and half of which is, you know, I think that in that instance it might have been actually to specifically the buyer.
Beth
But it's it's crazy because they were just like that. We shouldn't have to pay like they are choosing to use this realtor. They picked their realtor. The realtor works for them, not for us, and we are paying them. So those two side things, which then, you know, is a domino effect of other lawsuits now are happening and they've already filed another one.
Beth
The plaintiff attorney has already filed another one. And then you have the things that's happening that we talked about before with like Redfin saying we're not going to pay by our don't commission all the stuff.
Andrew
Oh, yeah. So they're are found guilty of collusion. And there's all these things, you know, collusion being let me have the definition secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy in order to cheat or deceive others. So that sounds so that's.
Jen
Such a.
Andrew
Guilty word, right?
Jen
So you're like, I'm blowing when you actually stop and think about this for a second, like, yeah, what you were just saying. But as like, if I'm listing my house and I'm paying a 6% fee, yeah, half of that is going to pay for the buyer's agent, which you're right is negotiate is the I'm paying somebody to negotiate against me or like represent somebody else in this transaction like at a lower price I think about.
Jen
Yeah, like, that's crazy. But like literally have never I will admit I have never thought about it in that way.
Beth
Questioned it because it's just been part of the process. Right.
Jen
Yeah, I.
Andrew
Think I think for you're watching like The Sopranos or, or one of those shows and like you put in the accents of these like Italian guys, it's like, Hey, you want to sell your house? Okay, cool, cool, cool. Here's what's going to work. And you put I'm not going to try to mimic the accents, but like the guys coming up to you and he's like, Please do it.
Andrew
Don't do it. Like, you know, if you like, know not to do it. What's funny is, like Carson, our oldest, his best friend, parents Dad is from Sicily, and as his crazy accent is hilarious, but you, they would be like, Hey, you pay me where it's like 6%, 3%, You know, half of that money. Go to this guy over here.
Andrew
You're like, way, way like, I'm paying Like that guy hates me. He's trying to steal my washer and dryer and, like, the appliances and, like, all this other stuff, and they want to take it down $50,000 on the price I'm gonna pay that guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's just how it works. You know, if you don't do it, we're not going to sell your home.
Andrew
We're not done talking about your home rather than a list. Your home. Actually, you can't even list your home because you have to put in something on the MLS. I think that's so there's all this evidence that's like, like, supports this collusion and you're like, wow. But the verdict was 1.35 million just for the Missouri case, which was which 100 something thousand homes.
Andrew
Now, I don't know where this money coming from or who goes to, but that was just Missouri. You should add $2 billion for all the other states. Is there like over $1,000,000,000,000 in like money that could be a verdict potentially? I have no idea. I don't.
Jen
Know. Pull your power.
Andrew
Play popcorn out.
Beth
But I got my Taylor Swift popcorn yet.
Andrew
The notorious robber now at the summit and he talked about this in depth if you want like I think he's the best with following all this in the details. That's great. Robert Hahn Yeah superintelligent he does have I don't say bias because that sounds accusatory, but he is building a product that has the that's like the solution. After all, this settles right.
Andrew
So there is you know, there is that there but I still think everything is saying seems very even in it's it's factual and he's referencing links and it's it's really one of the.
Beth
First people to really put it out there like.
Andrew
Yeah, he blew it.
Beth
And he's been in this supermarket a long time and has worked alongside MLS for a long time. So it's really fascinating.
Jen
Totally.
Andrew
Yeah, it's going to be really interesting. But most people I know about, I touch my I as I started to talk to my dad, he's an attorney.
Jen
And.
Andrew
So he and I'm like, Have you seen this case? He's like, No, tell me about it. He's like, Hmm.
Jen
I'm going to call some of my interesting my old friends.
Andrew
Like, how do you feel about this? Of course, realtors, like, like, I just assume they're like, this is garbage. It's, you know, a bunch of what I hope.
Jen
I'm going to find out. I'm going to all my peoples and report back.
Andrew
For a change.
Beth
To need to talk to some of my friends that are realtors. Because, like, it's not that realtors are bad people or sketchy people. If you saw the market, it's a it's just been the it in.
Jen
The.
Beth
Way exactly It's been like no way. This is the way agents sometimes are working harder than some of the seller agents Oh percent of cases. And so like there are handling a lot of are people.
Jen
Around and see and homes.
Beth
And the reality is and the other solution is that it comes out of pocket of the buyer which makes affordability even harder because now they have to pay agent commissions or agent rate that they never had to pay before, would they. And would they.
Andrew
And could they finance that? Yeah, not finance it. It's really like part of it's like the money's never really seen. And I think that's how it's worked for so long. I guess that's how the money comes out of here. And the buyer is like, okay, cool. But if you're like, Hey, for me to buy this home with with you, I negotiate.
Andrew
Here's here's a value I provide, It's going to be $6,000 and I want you paid initial fee now 2000. And then once we put a contract on home, another 2000, then once we close, that's another 2000. If you don't pay, there's a lean against your home and I could foreclose against you. Right. Wouldn't that be. I think that's how it works.
Andrew
Wouldn't it be like that's my God. It's like if you have a roof, they put it in and you get your home until like the balance is paid or any major house house project. And you go, Well, well, and I have to pay cash. Like I, I have 6000 from a down payment or 16 or 60 like have to take some of that away to pay you.
Andrew
What if I don't use a buyer's agent. Well, like.
Beth
Man.
Andrew
That's. Yeah, get the popcorn out. That is definitely the popcorn.
Beth
This has been a great prop for today's call.
Andrew
What kind of popcorn? By the way, did you make it yourself?
Beth
I'm so with my favorite popcorn, I'm boring. So I did, like. I know. I'm sorry. I'm really boring. I don't like overly butter or, like, overly salty, so like I do. I don't remember which brand it is, but it's like the natural one. Just like natural.
Jen
Yeah.
Beth
Original or whatever. I don't know. It's a brown box.
Andrew
I like the purple bag. Which one is that one? Boom chicka pop.
Beth
Oh, my. Like if I.
Jen
Had to pick a pop cause.
Beth
It's not pre pop I popped it.
Andrew
Boom chick. What is that. What is the popcorn. I need to know. People are like this time.
Beth
You're right.
Andrew
Yeah. Boom chicka pop and salty kettle kettle corn. It's like four bucks. But once you open the bag and it like the whole thing right there.
Beth
Yeah. Especially kettle corn because it could lose its crisp like it's like.
Andrew
So it's an air fryer just getting don't do that. Sounds like a terrible idea. Well that's it for the news this week current favorites and or your least favorite what you hate. Hate is a strong word but I really, really really don't like it. Whatever it may be.
Beth
I'm going to be nice today. I'm not going to go negative. I'm going to stay positive.
Andrew
Okay.
Beth
And stay along me eating one second.
Andrew
That's a sweet cut, by the way, To the top right there.
Beth
Taylor. Yeah, I got to go with my Taylor Swift Cup. I took my daughter to see it, but yeah, I'm eating all the candy. So we talked today on the on our marketing call, our internal marketing call about how good the Reese's Take five candies are. Like, I'm not a chocolate person. I usually go towards the fruity stuff like a starburst or some Skittles.
Beth
Oh yeah. Like those are jam.
Andrew
Put us together.
Beth
Oh lovely. It's like a party, But I am upset. They're like, crack the reasons take five they're so good and I can't stop eating them so well.
Jen
One of my favorite things was seeing your pictures of your family Halloween costumes. We were on point.
Andrew
You were hook. Your family was hook themed.
Jen
With the pretty legit Think you're.
Andrew
Next year I need a I'll make them I'll do a theme so.
Jen
All guys need it yeah Andrew I want to get like.
Andrew
That and like, I'll.
Jen
Just address my dogs. I think next year.
Beth
They were adorable. My kids were like, all in. Like, if you saw the video I post on Instagram, Kellan was like, fighting my like, my name.
00:51:34:18 - 00:51:35:23
Jen
Was so cute.
Beth
Mike had, like, sweet eyebrow. I drew eyebrows on him. I mean, it was you guys got to check out. Maybe we'll put a picture in.
Andrew
So take five, take five. Reese's. I swear I've had one of those. But then they had a while other, like we're putting pretzels in here in the Reese's.
Jen
We're putting those.
Andrew
Chips in here that will that one's like it's own separate thing versus irises with like one extra ingredient, you know?
Beth
I gotcha. No.
Jen
Yeah, Yeah. My favorite thing, I'm going to be that person today. Starbucks has their holiday drinks.
Beth
Oh, would you get.
Jen
The premium mocha? Okay, my favorite holiday. Interesting. So my son brought me one today, and I'm.
Beth
Yes, I love Sam.
Jen
I know Sam. And I.
Andrew
Am.
Beth
I am also super fan of Sam.
Jen
Yeah, that's right. Sam dressed up as in Olympia.
Andrew
The pictures were awesome. Speak at his builder.
Beth
I did see that picture. That was awesome.
Andrew
Yeah. For the chocolate factory. Let's see my favorite. I'll go. Well, I got two things. One I've been addicted to, so I like energy drinks. There's people that like them and the people that don't like them. Like it's definitely there's no in between. Right. I wish they would make these caffeine free is my wish. I think they're missing out on a market or having like a low calf.
00:52:56:20 - 00:53:12:11
Andrew
This is only like 160 or 140 milligrams for this one flavor. So here's the thing. I was just thinking about how dumb someone is. That monster. Monster. You're dumb. What flavors as I've been drinking this on the podcast.
00:53:12:13 - 00:53:15:06
Jen
It looks like some kind of great it's part.
Andrew
Why is the logo not this way for when I drink it and you see it like what it is? Oh, right. Why are they. Why am I looking at the little bit you see like the nutrition facts and like the warning label do not exceed more than five of these a day or something like that. They Yeah, the purple, the ultraviolet, ten out of ten and anything great flavor has been been great but I'll go the candy theme as far as my true favorite the I think is very very the purple bag of Skittles.
Jen
Omega.
Andrew
Mixed with Starburst. Take a starburst Skittles in the middle, Another stronger together.
Jen
Oh, okay.
Andrew
That's the party in your mouth right there.
Beth
That is really good. I know it's weird. Is that Starburst? Starburst came out with their, like, Starburst minis, which are basically like, cut down smaller. They're not good.
Andrew
They're not good. It's wrong.
Beth
I don't know. They taste like waxy. I don't know what it is.
Andrew
There's less moisture in it, if that's even a word. They're less moist, like they're.
Jen
Actually dry. Oh, how I feel about that word.
Andrew
Don't say that word. That's a word. There's a whole bunch of words. What's it? There's more of these from the summer. So sign up for the fabulous for the summit. If you want to know more about Arctic Words now, there's much more reasons. We'll be in Chicago next year. It will be freezing water. Amazing.
Beth
And it's my favorite one.
Andrew
Right by the being like we're like being out on the river. There's so much good food right there. Remember the popcorn? Like, I know this is like touristy stuff. People from Chicago, Jackie Lipinski is like, Oh my gosh, you people are so embarrassing. It's like, like, I and Key West. But the popcorn, you get them all mixed together, other flavors.
Andrew
Oh, my gosh. It's so good on that.
Beth
I'm starved, Pumped.
Andrew
I'm pumped. Let's go. And it's October. It's our latest summit, I think, ever. Maybe usually it's like September or October. Okay. We're going back to late.
Jen
Like mid October.
Andrew
And I was in Dallas. In Texas.
Jen
Yeah, yeah, Dallas.
Andrew
So Chicago. Yeah. It'll be. Yes, I know. Get on that list. Well, let's see that is it for this week. Thank you for listening. Don't forget to become a member for free Converse all access Community app for homebuilders and developers. Watch behind the scenes video from the podcast. Frequent exclusive postings, super exclusive and analysis from the DBC team, access to private hangouts and more.
Beth
So bye.
Jen
Bye.
Andrew
Bye.
