Jen
We are alive. Hello, everybody. My name is Jen Barkan, an online sales coach at Do You Convert. And welcome to online people talking or OPT, as we like to call it. This series is dedicated to you, the new home online sales specialist. We'll talk about real life challenges, scenarios, successes, content all just for you. And on today's OPT, we are joined by the one and only Amanda Martin! Come on.
Jen
Hello. Online sales coach extraordinaire. Yes, Hello, Amanda. Thank you for joining us.
Amanda
Yes, thanks for having me.
Jen
Yes. If you are tuning in, definitely say hello. If you've had the opportunity to know Amanda, work with Amanda. Give her some heart. We love Amanda. She is just an amazing coach. We are so thrilled to have her on the team. And Amanda has been crunching numbers. Yeah, she's our data guru on the online sales team, so we love her so much.
Jen
She's been crunching numbers and she has, as of today, release the Q two benchmarks.
Amanda
Oh, yeah.
Jen
Yeah. And she's going to we're going to give us a quick update about that. Yes. Before we before Amanda gives us her update, just as a reminder, when we look at our benchmarks across the board, we are really big on data integrity here at Do You Convert. So we are taking a sampling of our builder partners across the country big builders, small builders, new builders, big builders, regional builders, all builders, all of those, but all of them count leads, appointments and sales the same way across the board.
Jen
So we want to keep that data consistent for you guys to give you those numbers. So just a heads up, that's what we're doing. So Amanda, what did we see and can you give us some. Yes.
Amanda
So great stuff in Q2 for sure. So a few percentages that we saw lead to appointment was 41%, appointment to sale was 21%, and the O.C. contribution was 46%. So when you kind of look at this big picture, it's a slight increase in leads, leads to a point. Matt and the O.C. contrary. So that's that was really cool to see but was what was really exciting was the appointment to sales.
Amanda
So that jumped up about 2%. But it didn't.
Jen
Seem like a big deal. But that's that jump is actually a pretty big deal from 19% in Q1 to 21%, right, in Q2?
Amanda
Yes. Yes.
Jen
So what were a couple of the the reasons that you think that we saw that jump?
Amanda
Well, quality leads for sure. So marketing marketers that really kind of figured it out. We're getting some good quality leads. So we love to see that. And then just as these are really able to spend the time to deeply qualify, like they're not drowning right now and they can really spend the time on the phone with the leads and fully qualify them and build a relationship with them.
Amanda
Yeah, And of course, you know, having the inventory and incentives to help buyers, that's always helpful.
Jen
Yeah. I mean, builders have inventory, got some easier buying options out there for home buyers and with with limited used homes on the market. Right. New construction is the option. Now one thing that we also looked at and you'll see this when you when you head over to converge dot com. You can look at the the full blog and and infographics and all of that information for you and you'll be able to dive deep into this.
Jen
But one thing we do also is kind of pull out those longstanding well-established programs and kind of look at those separate and see and those programs are still contributing 50% of sales in total contribution coming from the online sales program. Amanda, what do you think the the differences other than longstanding program? Right. What are some of the things that you think contribute to that 50% difference?
Amanda
Yeah, well, these are seasoned O.C. is they're they've been in the seat for a while and they truly are practicing 100% of the process 100% of the time with 100% of the leads at exactly what we like to see. And they also have great managers who are involved in their program. So that is super helpful. And and we always love to see that.
Amanda
But also they know how to keep check on their leads like they do system audits. They make sure that nothing's broken. They test all their sources. So that is a really important part of our role. Yeah.
Jen
I was with a team yesterday. Shout out to Arbor if you're chiming in. Hey. And they said, you know, one of the reasons they have some some great success is they have the communication communication with their online and on site team together that it always comes back down to that communication communication between online onsite marketing sales, you know, that that's so important.
Jen
So guys, head over to check out that blog. We love to see. What are your numbers looking like right now? If you want to share, definitely chat out and chime in. Yes, Jesse, communication is key. As Amanda and I were preparing for today's, we were we took a little bit of a trip down memory lane. And, you know, we're going to we're talking about content today.
Jen
And if you're creating content from an online sales standpoint, definitely pay attention. Now, back in the day when Amanda and I were online sales specialist, it was kind of like the wild, wild west of content creation. We didn't know what the heck we were doing. We were just like, Yeah, let's go out on site and create content. And I think we might actually have in the archives.
Jen
Amanda, Don't be mad.
Amanda
Not, mad!
Jen
But I think we have in the archives a picture of you in a bathtub is happening. What was happening here.
Amanda
Was a demo. Look at how great that bathtub is right? This is great content. It's an.
Jen
Amanda in a bathtub in a model home showing what a great soaker tub this.
Jen
So you guys, you might have heard me mention some of you, is that my son Sam is stepping into the new home sales world. He's actually working out at a model home here in Virginia Beach. And he was like, hey, mom didn't used to do, like content, like ask Jen. And you would go around and do these demos just like Amanda in the bathtub.
Jen
Yes. I'm like, Yeah, I sure did. And he goes, Send me something. So I sent him this picture of me on a laying on a kitchen island, and he quickly sent it back to me with him laying on the kitchen island. He's like, I think I'm going to I'm going to start imitating the action. I'm going to ask Sam be out at in Virginia Beach.
Jen
So I just had to laugh. And Amanda, was this even a good idea? I don't know. I think. What were we pioneers? I don't know.
Amanda
We were in our own way.
Jen
Definitely pioneering.
Amanda
With that.
Jen
Let's let's get some expert advice, though. So I love to bring on our resident content marketing specialist, Julie Jarnagin. Welcome to all my people talking. We had to bring you on to to give us your expert opinion. But let me let me properly introduce you, Julie,, she's one of our amazing teammates here at Do You Convert!
Jen
She has been in the new home marketing world for over 15 years. She's got all this experience, and correct me if I'm wrong, you started your new home career at Ideal Homes.
Julie
I did. I did. As a marketing coordinator, I think was a marketing coordinator.
Jen
Very good. And she is now a marketing coach here at Do You Convert and guys, she wrote a new book. Here it is. Oh my gosh, I have my signed copy. Have a Heart.
Amanda
Oh yeah.
Jen
Official author Julie Jarnagin Building Certainty. And I just love this. We wanted to have her on because there's a lot that goes into this. It's not just for marketers but online sales specialists out there that are creating content and working with their marketing teams. And even just your own follow up write online sales specialist that you're doing takes into account some of Julie's great wisdom here.
Jen
But Julie, this is not the first book that you've written.
Julie
No, it's not. I've written I have written about I think it's probably 14 novels. So think like Hallmark movies as a as a novel. But when I say romance, people are always like, Oh, but they're they're sweet, sweet romance. But this is my first non nonfiction book, and I'm really, really excited about it. It was the perfect segue way into nonfiction to do it for the home building crowd, because I love you guys.
Jen
Hallmark movies to building certainty for marketing guys. She has an actual website that oh gosh, has is.
Julie
I should go clean it up profiles.
Jen
For Michelle Now. She showed it to us the other day and I was like, Oh my gosh, you're so legit. I mean, I knew that. But like, holy cow, this is awesome. Okay, so let's let's get into why we wanted to talk to you. Julie Should online sales. Let's first talk about this. Should online sales specialist be focused on this?
Jen
Should they be thinking about content? I have opinions too, but I want to hear what you have to say.
Amanda
Okay.
Julie
Well, first, I'm like, so excited to be here. I'm honored to be here that you'll ask a marketing person into your little world.
Jen
This is the first marketing person we've had on online people talking. Is this super exciting? Me If you guys and you guys like hearing from marketers, let's hear some clapping because I think we need to have more.
Julie
You know, I'm loving this. This is fun. And I would say whether they realize it or not, they already are creating content marketing. Now, some online sales people who are more appointment takers, which is anybody here, they may be not because all they're doing is emailing back and forth or on a phone call and sending an appointment. But you guys who are professionals and know what you're doing, y'all already are creating content because basically all it is is a message that shared with a customer or a potential customer through media is what I say, which can be a lot of different things.
Julie
So you guys are already doing that, whether you know it or not, even if it's just a written email about a going out to list of people about a community opening, that's content marketing right there. If you're sending a bump on video to a group of people in your list, that's content marketing. So you may not realize it, but y'all are already doing it.
Jen
Oh, okay. So let's I want to break this down a little bit. So first and foremost, I want to back I want to zoom out and say, should online sales specialists be creating content? Yes. But when we talk about content that's out there, like sitting in a bathroom, like going out there and doing some videos and doing some content as it relates with your marketing professional and together with them, that's a secondary priority.
Jen
So here's where my mama Jen, you know how it goes on. And I say nothing happens until your lead management is taken care of, right? So that's first and foremost. But if you have the bandwidth, all of your first priorities are taken care of, then yes, you should get out on site. You should do some fun videos, right, Julie And.
Julie
Yes, and the marketers are always looking for somebody who's comfortable in camera, who has energy, and that's stuff you guys are already learning on your job. There are so many people as a marketer you try to throw in front of the camera that maybe they're great in person and then they get really freaked out. But if you're already doing those things, then a lot of times you're really natural at it and sometimes you don't know if we're not your direct supervisor as the marketer, we may not know what your bandwidth is.
Julie
So if you have an interest and it's good with, you know, you talk this through and you have the bandwidth, yeah, let them know and get out there because you are really one of the only recognizable faces of the of the company that might exist. So.
Jen
Oh, is it considered content marketing if the off sees face is on the website that.
Julie
Absolutely, absolutely.
Jen
Starts there.
Julie
Pretty much anything on the website I would consider content marketing because any kind of text, photos, renderings, tools that are on our website is, is part of content marketing. So yeah, it starts there. So like I said, you're already involved whether whether you want to be or realize it or not.
Jen
Okay, So starts with website calls to actions, getting out on site, doing some things. But do you think what would your advice be to the online sales specialist? If they want to do this, go go to marketing and say, hey, let's do something together. Like what are some advice? What's some advice there?
Julie
Absolutely. First, I would start with thinking about how you are to use and can use content marketing in your own role. Like I was saying, sending out, if you're already sending out Bon Bon videos, just making those the best they can be if you're already writing these emails, making sure that messaging is super strong and are well edited and you're thinking through all those those steps, then if you want to take it a step further and be more out there, your face out there, I would say yes, work together with with your marketer on that.
Julie
And a lot of times they're open to that because they want to make more videos. Sometimes they just don't know where to start. But I would say a lot of people times people are like, Oh, I'm going to start my own Instagram page. What you don't realize is that you already have the most amazing tool with these email list you have as marketers.
Julie
A lot of times we're at this build awareness stage of people are scrolling on the internet, trying to look for funny names and we're trying to grab people's attention or they're on the website and they're in that just looking face. You know, if you ever work retail and they're like, Can I help you? And everybody was like, Oh, just looking.
Julie
We're dealing with a lot of those people. You're dealing with the people who are already excited, already interested, you know, a little bit about them. So don't don't overlook how much your role already can use content marketing and how much you can reach people using that. And then yeah, the other stuff is a bonus and it's boldness for marketers to be able to have you available for those things.
Jen
MM Lots of listen hear from Julie. So I love what you're saying is that you already have this database of people, right, that, that you could go back and you could work and nurture and resuscitate. Speaking specifically about let's talk first about email, follow up, because there's a difference between follow up and marketing write services. Sure. Online sit.
Jen
This is online, people talking. And so we want to be careful for online. We went online sales to look super authentic and natural and real. So what's some advice for if online sales is going like, I have this list of people and I want to create some content to send to them? What are some things they need to be thinking about as it relates to them specifically and not make it to market sized?
Julie
Absolutely. Yeah. First of all, I would say before you create anything or send anything out, you want to think about your goal for that piece of content. Are you trying to get a response? Are you trying to keep people excited that maybe it's been a community coming forever? Are you trying to set expectations? Maybe you're trying to explain something that's really complicated.
Julie
So before you do anything, like what? What is your goal with this whole thing you're doing? Because if you're just like, I want to make a video, what am I going to make it about? It might end up being pointless. So that's not our goal. We wanted to do something. So what does it do then? You go into thinking about, Well, how is the best way to do that?
Julie
Is it just a quick written message? Is it a video so that they can get comfortable with me and see my face? Is it photos? Is that are there tools on the website that I can lead them to that would best explain? This is a blog post that we could write or already exist that I could lead them to.
Julie
So if you start with that goal, then think what is what's the topic? What's the best medium to use to do that? And then how do we distribute it? A lot of times it's going to be email like we've been talking about. But there's other ways. There's social media, there's the blogs, all the thing, everything on the website, the marketers do, but kind of go through that process of beginning with the end in mind, like what are we trying to accomplish?
Julie
And then going through those steps and I think you'll have a lot more success with it.
Jen
A couple of things you just said I wrote down because I was like, I got to remember to ask her that is, what do you think about emails that have lots of different links in them?
Julie
I think I think links are amazing, but you also don't want so many links that they don't know what to do or where to go. You want a very clear this is what this emails about. This is how it's going to help you. This is where I want you to start. Then if you need them to go other places and do other things, that's more future follow up.
Julie
You can do that in the next round. So would say I love links. I love sending them to places, but just make sure you know, when we when a marketer builds a website always on the home page, it's like, where do we want them to go? What do we want them to do? It's going to be the same with you.
Julie
Like after somebody reads this email, what do you want them to do? Do you want them to reply to you? Do you want them to go to the website to go look at something? Do you want them to watch the video that's down there on the bottom? So it's just thinking through those little things from the customer's eyes, like why do the customer care and what do I want them to do next?
Jen
So I love that because I think figuring out so the first thing you said was let your goal look like, okay, and that could be that could be varying, right? If you're it could be updating a list, like if you have an interest list. Right. That you want to update, it could be, you know, this is an older database that I want to kind of clean up and do some list hygiene.
Jen
If that's the case, that goal is going to be different. You want to maybe ask a question to kind of see where they're at in life, Right. Like what's going on? And then the second part of that I think is important for us to talk about is once you have your goal, though, you also need to recognize your audience.
Jen
Mm hmm. Right. Because your messaging is going to be different depending on the list that you're sending it to.
Julie
Absolutely. And that's part of that distribution step. So, yeah, you're thinking about your topic and what you're trying to accomplish. You're thinking about the best medium for that, and then you're thinking about your distribution. So we just said email, but it's just not so easy as just email.
Jen
Like what?
Julie
What email list? Who's getting it? When are they getting it? That all matters? How often are they getting these things? You know, if you're sending them a series of things, how far are you breaking them apart? So it's all steps that before you just, you know, shoot out something. If you just take a few minutes, it doesn't take that long to just strategize and think through from the home buyers perspective, what do they need and what do I want them to do next?
Julie
How can we best help them and go through those steps? So yeah, that that creating the right list. So getting the right messaging to the right person at the right time, that's really the magic that happens from somebody just, you know, shooting anything out to anybody, to people who are really strategic about it and thinking it through.
Amanda
Okay.
Jen
Now, one question we get sometimes from online sales specialist is like, how much is too much marketing in a month? Amanda shaking her head.
Amanda
Man, what a populated question. Yes, people ask all the time. They're like, there's a lot going out. Is this.
Jen
Right? Know, there's there's seems like there's a lot going out. There's my follow up that's happening If it's a non responsibly that they're on a short term follow up process and then there's marketing. So what in your opinion and your expert opinion, what's the right amount of touches in a month that.
Julie
A Well, first I would say make sure you're keeping those to differentiate it in some way. We want them to be able to tell the difference when marketing is speaking to them and when it's coming from the new home consultant or the online sales consultant when it's coming from them. In a more personal way, even if that's like a mask mail from you guys, we want that to feel more personal with your name on it, and we want marketing to feel like it's coming from marketing.
Julie
So that's we want it to seem feel even if you're doing both in your role because that's just how it is. You need to make it feel separate for marketing, we usually say it at least once a month, maybe two a month if you have great content coming from marketing. And the reason you don't want to just say, Well, we'll just wait until we have something to share.
Julie
I actually shared a story on the last podcast about Hidden Valley Ranch just randomly started emailing me and I got like six emails in like two days from them. And I was like, How did it end up in the list and who are you and why are you emailing me all the time? So for marketing needs to be kind of this consistent, whatever that timeline is, consistent where they're not shocked to hear from you when they get this newsletter and they haven't heard from you in a year.
Julie
So it's consistent then online sales, you know, that depends on what list they're on, who they are, if they're a new prospect, if they've responded, you know, you guys know all that. But I think as long as you keep it as two different things and marketing just focuses more on consistency, slower consistency.
Jen
Okay. Yeah, I think we get that question a lot and it's like, yeah, listen, if it's a new lead that's never engaged with us, the short term follow up processes and they're getting nine different touch points in 30 days. So they're, they're already, they're getting that personalized approach, you know, and then after that, they're going into a monthly prospecting.
Jen
And sometimes we get that feedback of, well, I don't really need to do and this is me too. So my prospecting is taking care of because I know marketing is sending out stuff. Amanda Did you ever feel like you like marketing, sending out stuff so I'm good? Or was it just me?
Amanda
I mean, kind of, because a lot went out, you know, So you don't want to blow it and you think they're good, but it's a totally different feel when you are on the receiving end of that communication. When it's 1 to 1, it's an actual person. Like that's so much better to receive than marketing in your face all the time.
Amanda
Yeah.
Julie
And you guys on your can be so much more personalized than we can be. What's coming from the marketing? We're much more at a higher level, you know, here's our company, here's the general things we're doing. You all have the gift of being able to personalize because from those lists and things, you know more about those customers when they when they originally requested something, what they're interested in pulling list.
Julie
So I would just say use that to your advantage. Don't think of it as being the same thing that marketing sending out because it's different and you can be more personal one on one. It's coming from a human. Whereas in marketing it's just coming from the company or the brand, the company sending things out. You're the human, you're the person they want to hear from you.
Julie
So I would say definitely don't, don't not prospect because you think marketing is doing something.
Amanda
Yeah, don't do that. Exactly.
Jen
You have to. So prospects are you guys you have the prospect but I love what you're saying because yeah like just inserting your that human centered communication like our friends at mom talk about that, like inserting yourself into that email video, even texting voice mails, like all of those things are part of your follow up and it is still content.
Jen
You're still marketing your your self, your builder, your homes. So it does go a long way.
Julie
And that's why good quality content matters because they want to keep hearing from you If it's good content and it pertains to them and it engages them, then they don't have that resistance to hearing from you because they're like, Oh, I always get good stuff from them. I'm going to open this up.
Jen
Right? And going back to something you said, when I ask you the question about the the links and, you know, keep it simple, what you agree, Julie, like apps don't put too many pictures, don't put too many links that can kind of confuse the customer or they might start it might start feeling a little bit like it's not a real person sending it right.
Jen
If you get to like 130.
Julie
100%. Yeah. If you try to get too fancy with it, they're going to say this isn't this isn't from a human, you know, it's different in a marketing email when we're giving them lots of options of like, here's the homes, here's the blogs, here's where it's different for y'all. It's it's more simple. One person is giving you one message and sending you one place.
Julie
So, yeah, that's two different, two different ideas.
Jen
Oh, I love I love Julie John again.
Amanda
Yeah, again.
Jen
Give her some, some heart if you have any questions for her specifically while we're on, feel free to chat those out and we'll get, we'll get the expert to answer some of that for you on here while we're together. Okay. I want to anything else online so special. Janelle, before we switch gears.
Julie
Now, just I respect you guys so much. I used to be I know Amanda wrote that great blog and had that great opt about having a backup person. I was yeah, I was Elena's backup person for years. And so I have so much respect. Every time she came back, I would say, Elena, I love you. I couldn't do what you do.
Julie
Like, that's hard work out there. It takes a lot of energy to pour that much energy into other people all day and make sure they're taking care of and making sure you're you're getting the right things to them. So that's how I respect you. So the fact that so many online sales people want to, like, embrace content as well, then kudos to you guys because you have a you work hard and I know it.
Jen
Man. Who wants Julie to come back to opt again. This is great. This is like, Oh my gosh, just all the field for online sales specialist out there. Last thing I want to say about this and then we're going to move on to some fun questions and fun facts. It is I think online sales specialists should always to work with your market.
Jen
Like if you create something, have get another set of eyeballs on it. Now, marketers don't try to market size it. I say this with all of my heart. Like if your online sales specialist comes to you with a simple email that they want to send out to a list just to update or get engagement or whatever, keep it simple, let market size it.
Jen
It's coming from them. Julie Any advice there?
Julie
AT No, I think that is that's amazing advice. I think that the builders that have online sales and marketing work together really well. I mean you can see it. You guys know what people need and what they want and what they're asking. And if you can communicate that to marketing, then they can help with all that great content and then utilize it.
Julie
That's another thing, Like if they're if they have all these great photos and tools and renderings and all this, you don't have to recreate the will. Also, just use. Don't expect that home buyers just have already seen it, you know, use it in your follow up so you don't have to create everything from scratch. Use what they've already worked so hard on and give you feedback about what you need more of and they may be able to work that in as well.
Jen
I love that because I can remember even, you know, again, wild, Wild West days, if we created a piece of content like went out to the community and did a video with the sales exec and did something out there, you create your content library and you could use that same bit of content on social. You can use it on YouTube and email for prospecting newsletters or whatever, like use it like spread, spreading it out, spread the wealth, use it in multiple places and get advice.
Jen
Okay, Fun questions, fun facts about Julie again, famous author and recovering online sales specialist backed up, apparently. Right? Right. All right. Favorite thing about what you do right now, What you get to do.
Julie
I love that it uses the creative part and the analytical part of my brain because I'm very much at lists Maker. I mean, a list maker. I love being in analytics and seeing the numbers, but then also have that writer side of me that's more creative in marketing. You get to use both and then I just love all my online builders.
Julie
Shout out to all my builders as well.
Jen
Yes, yes. What are you watching on TV right now? We're always looking for.
Julie
I'm pretty boring because I just always have Top Chef and Great British Baking Show in rotation. Like that's the ones I've seen over and over again. And I can play in the background even though I only cook that much. And then my husband and I will take a cheesy sitcom and watch one every night before bed. So we're currently on Psych, so we're very like, I don't know, the new hottest shows because that's just how we do things.
Jen
I love that. I watch friends, like on repeat. It just makes me like.
Julie
Your comfort.
Jen
Show. Yeah, I know the book you're currently reading. Besides building certainty.
Julie
I just read not a fan, which is like a Christian living book, but I'm about to start Fourth Wing because I have lots of friends who keep telling me I have to read it, even though that's not my normal what I normally read. I think it's very like Game of Thrones, right? Have you all read it? If you all heard of I Anyway, I'm about to start that one because people.
Jen
I'm Hallmark movie reading right now.
Julie
That I could send you I could send you some ideas, not mine of other people's.
Jen
Oh, Beth says she just thought that so.
Julie
Oh, that's a big reader. She's a good person to get my recommendation.
Jen
An avid. Yes, avid reader over there. Okay. What do you do to recharge your battery other than reading?
Julie
I do jujitsu, so I've done that for about five years. So it's one of those things that when you're doing jujitsu, you can only focus on that. So if you're a kind of person that like has stuff going on in your brain at all times, it's like if you're trying to think about work or kids or whatever, when you're trying to do jujitsu, somebody is going to choke you or.
Amanda
Pretend.
Jen
It forces you to be super like, Yeah, in the moment.
Julie
Like my version of yoga or meditation, I guess. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I mess around in my yard all the time. You know, flower veg, all.
Jen
That vegetable.
Julie
Not vegetables, it's all flowerbeds and pretty stuff. I'm not. It's so easy, Louisiana. It's hard. Yeah.
Jen
Yeah, me too. What is one thing that most people don't know about you?
Julie
Well, with all the books and the the movie thing, I'm strange in that I like to know the ending. So I do flip to the end of books and read the ending before I read it. Or if I'm going to a movie, even if it's a brand new movie out. Before I go, I'll read the entire synopsis of the movie because I get so emotionally invested in it and like, nervous, I can't enjoy the movie.
Julie
So I like to know what's going to happen and I can just sit.
Jen
Oh my.
Amanda
God. Very strange.
Jen
What is that people say about you.
Julie
Or anybody else? I can't be the only person who's like this.
Jen
Does anybody else watching do that?
Julie
Almost like a control freak thing?
Amanda
I don't know. Oh, there are some people. What?
Jen
We're going to need to investigate this a little bit further. It's a weird hey for Hey, online sales specialist out there. I forgot to say this, but if you are out there doing some great content, whatever it is, share it. We love to see that. I know, Frankie, you've probably got some some fresh stuff out there that you're doing posted here below.
Jen
We love to see Share what you're doing, and we will pick a winner to get Julie's book. We will send you a book. Julie, can we get an autograph?
Julie
The hundred percent.
Jen
I was happy with the heart and I love online sales specialist. Yup. So definitely posted here. We love to see that. Thank you so much.
Amanda
It's so.
Julie
Fun.
Jen
This is so fun. You guys see why we love Julie Jared again, We're so proud of her and her book and her passion for the industry is pretty evident. And thank you, Amanda, for sharing all of the latest numbers you can go over to convert and see all of that data there. Also, Amanda's latest blog that Julie mentioned about creating your backup plan is posted on their live step by step instructions on how to do that.
Jen
So thank you so much and thank you guys for joining Online People Talking. We will see you next time. Thank you so much.
Amanda
Bye bye.
